Big 12 Expansion Project

[doc longhorn]

As far as expansion, my contention has always been to add two teams from the SEC.

If the bottom line is what's important to schools, and it is, why not have the Big 12 make an $$$ offer to Arky and LSU they can't refuse?

Both of these schools covet Texas HS kids, and from that viewpoint it makes recruiting sense.  Geographically it makes sense and ESPN could be leveraged into agreeing with it - with UT's support.  Fox would love to get into a bidding war with this arrangement.

In addition, Arky and LSU would have to think the Big 12 would be a better path to the final four than the SEC.  And they would be part of the Big Dog clique as well - instead of Bama and Florida.

Finally, much to the chagrin of aggy, we could make LSU a turkey day rival.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Logically you appear to be right.  However, winning mitigates everything.  If UT goes back to its powerhouse days, the Big 12 prospers and the 8 dwarfs will shut the hell up. 

In addition, UT needs to tell the SEC powers that it is taking off its gloves.  We are going to recruit like they do and we are going to televise high school games in the southern states.  What is the toothless NCAA going to do about it?  In addition, UT is going to start holding football camps in Alabama, Louisiana, Florida and Georgia.  We are going to flood the SEC markets with PR signs and ads about UT.

We have the money and we can do it.

LOL

I don't think you'll see UT brazenly ignore or violate existing NCAA rules. Maybe we're already "recruiting like SEC powers do"? We're just not privy as to how. 

I like the idea of satellite camps in the southeast, though. Why not? Seems to be working out well for Michigan.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Not all schools make the money that UT does.  WVU had to swallow the costs (borrow against the schools revenues) of the Olympic sports in order to join a power 5 conference.  Especially with the additional increase in membership revenues - that it was betting on.

In addition, even with the money UT has, our president said it didn't make economic sense to join the PAC.  Sure, there were other considerations, but everyone just keeps on ignoring that sports programs are all about the bottom line.

Maybe you need to go back and read previous posts and the Number Monkey's analysis.

Nobody is ignoring the bottom line. WVU was more than willing to accept higher, inconvenient travel costs for its Title IX non-revenue sports because Big12 membership and TV revenues outweighed the negatives. It was a BIG net gain for WVU, a no-brainer.

You're right - joining the PAC doesn't make economic sense for UT. Higher travel costs, lower TV revenues, and the loss of LHN as a condition. Doesn't sound like a good deal to me either.

 

[doc longhorn]

LOL

I don't think you'll see UT brazenly ignore or violate existing NCAA rules. Maybe we're already "recruiting like SEC powers do"? We're just not privy as to how. 

I like the idea of satellite camps in the southeast, though. Why not? Seems to be working out well for Michigan.

Nah, UT is way too stodgy to buck the NCAA.  But, if we are going to consider fairy tales, why not consider this scenario?

Also, I can assure you, in spite of what aggys howl, we aren't paying players and never have in the modern age.  We've never had to.

 

[rtXC]

As far as expansion, my contention has always been to add two teams from the SEC.

If the bottom line is what's important to schools, and it is, why not have the Big 12 make an $$$ offer to Arky and LSU they can't refuse?

Both of these schools covet Texas HS kids, and from that viewpoint it makes recruiting sense.  Geographically it makes sense and ESPN could be leveraged into agreeing with it - with UT's support.  Fox would love to get into a bidding war with this arrangement.

In addition, Arky and LSU would have to think the Big 12 would be a better path to the final four than the SEC.  And they would be part of the Big Dog clique as well - instead of Bama and Florida.

Finally, much to the chagrin of aggy, we could make LSU a turkey day rival.

While it would make the Big 12 the undisputed best conference all-around, it is pretty much impossible to pull this one off without a Big 12 Network. The money simply is not available to entice them to join.

 

[rtXC]

I think the Big 12's best short-term option is to split into two 5-team divisions (Delaney helped us out with that one) and go for a 7- or 8-game conference slate. We'd have to give the TV networks a commitment of 10 quality games/team to pull that off and not lose money, but it would put us on equal or better footing than the SEC and ACC, with their 8-game schedules. Of course, it could be hard to find 30 quality non-confernce games each year, so maybe the 7-game slate is too unrealistic.

Why would this help? We add the Conference Championship Game ($20-$35M per year), but don't have to add schools to do it. Also, since there are 2 divisions, we can avoid back-to-back rematches, which would have been the case with OU and OSU this season, by scheduling division games at the end of the season.

We could divide it by geography or by the "zipper" method:

Geography:

North - South

   OU - TX

 OSU - TTU

    KU - BU

 KSU - TCU

  ISU - WVU

True Zipper:

     A - B

   OU - OSU

  TTU - TX

  TCU - BU

   KU - KSU

WVU - ISU

Modified Zipper:

     A - B

   TX - OU

 TTU - OSU

  BU - TCU

   KU - KSU

WVU - ISU

North-South causes problems because, while the Big Eight schools staying together is nice, OU and OSU have it so easy compared to the Texas schools and WVU. 

A true zipper splits schools by region, with the main rival as the designated cross-division rival. This would require more permanent cross-division games, since OU would have to play both OSU and Texas every year.

The modified zipper is probably best, just by flipping TCU and KU from the North-South split, keeping more balanced divisions and all major rivalries intact. Texas keeps OU, TTU, and BU. OU keeps OSU and Texas. KSU keeps ISU and KU. TCU and Baylor keep each other. TTU-TCU would be missed, but with a 7-game conference slate, could be played in non-conference, if they wanted it every year.

The schedule is easy as well: 4 division games, 1 cross-division rival, 2-3 remaining from the other division. At worst, you'll play every team every other season. Like I said, put the bulk of the divisional games at the end of the season and rematches in the CCG will likely be avoided. 

A 7-game slate would allow for 5 non-conference games, while 8 conference games would take 1 away. Either way, 4 or 5 OOC games gives every school a better shot to make a bowl, and also will inflate the records of our teams, which means more top 25 teams, which means a better overall resume for the champion.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

While it would make the Big 12 the undisputed best conference all-around, it is pretty much impossible to pull this one off without a Big 12 Network. The money simply is not available to entice them to join.

Agreed

We'd need FOX to step up big time to entice a couple of P5 teams to the Big12. I don't necessarily think we need a Big12 Network on a designated channel - regional programming may suffice. Do the numbers work for FOX to up the ante to pull SEC teams away from ESPN's grasp? I don't know...

There's no incentive for UT to give up on the LHN without monetary consideration both now and in the future. LSU and Arky have potential to grow our Big12 pie, but by how much in an ala carte world?

 

[Embrey]

The Granting of Rights was Texas' concession to retain the LHN.

That is the one thing you NEVER hear Mr. Boren say - that the conference would agree to dissolve the GOR in return for a conference network.

Texas either retains the advantage of the LHN or they regain the giant stick they used to wield, affecting conference policy with the understanding by all of the possibility that they could leave.

It's like poker, if you don't like the fact that the guy with the inordinately big stack pushes everybody around and dictates play, don't sit at the table.

Which is more valuable? The GOR or the LHN?

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

The Granting of Rights was Texas' concession to retain the LHN.

That is the one thing you NEVER hear Mr. Boren say - that the conference would agree to dissolve the GOR in return for a conference network.

Texas either retains the advantage of the LHN or they regain the giant stick they used to wield, affecting conference policy with the understanding by all of the possibility that they could leave.

It's like poker, if you don't like the fact that the guy with the inordinately big stack pushes everybody around and dictates play, don't sit at the table.

Which is more valuable? The GOR or the LHN?

Where are the other members - besides OU - going if they vote to "dissolve the GOR"?

I'm sure the B1G is interested in KU, but I don't see anyone else finding a home short-term. Just saying. I think you'll see UT and our voting block call Boren this summer.

 

[doc longhorn]

Adding Houston to protect recruiting and stick it to aggy doesn't make sense.  UH doesn't add to the TV footprint and they are ONE year into a resurgence which could end when Tom Herman moves on as he inevitably will.  (see Briles, Sumlin).  They have been irrelevent since the end of the SWC and will continue to be until they can string together a few years like they have had this year.  The Big 12 needs schools in the east in order to open up new TV markets and to geographically help out WV.

Exactly.  The Big 12 and UT are already in the Houston TV market.  They don't need Houston.

 

[doc longhorn]

While it would make the Big 12 the undisputed best conference all-around, it is pretty much impossible to pull this one off without a Big 12 Network. The money simply is not available to entice them to join.

UT could make it happen.  Deal making takes strange turns - turns we could never believe could happen.  Who, in their right mind, would have thought the Texas legislature would have allowed aggy to retreat to SEC?  Who would have ever thought the SWC would join the Big 8?

Just sayin.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Exactly.  The Big 12 and UT are already in the Houston TV market.  They don't need Houston.

By that logic, we shouldn't have added TCU either.

 

[doc longhorn]

Agreed

We'd need FOX to step up big time to entice a couple of P5 teams to the Big12. I don't necessarily think we need a Big12 Network on a designated channel - regional programming may suffice. Do the numbers work for FOX to up the ante to pull SEC teams away from ESPN's grasp? I don't know...

There's no incentive for UT to give up on the LHN without monetary consideration both now and in the future. LSU and Arky have potential to grow our Big12 pie, but by how much in an ala carte world?

Oh, no doubt the obstacles would be formidable.  But so would all the rest of the fairy tale scenarios proposed on here.

But there has never been a horse that can't be rode or a cowboy that can't be throwed.

The problem with our beloved school is that it has never exhibited the talent or ability to make progressive and innovative moves.  Nor will it ever.

UT is like that big old mule my grandpa used to tell me about.  When it got stubborn and wouldn't move, a stick up its butt  was the only thing that gave it motivation.

 

[Embrey]

By that logic, we shouldn't have added TCU either.

You know posts such as these are a dog whistle to me but my views on this matter are well documented.

 

[doc longhorn]

By that logic, we shouldn't have added TCU either.

There was nothing logical about adding TCU.  Nothing.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

There was nothing logical about adding TCU.  Nothing.

Lose a TX school, add a TX school. Other than that, I've got nothin'.

OU signed off on 'em and I'm sure they thought playing games in DFW will help their recruiting. It may have backfired on 'em though.

 

[rtXC]

Agreed

We'd need FOX to step up big time to entice a couple of P5 teams to the Big12. I don't necessarily think we need a Big12 Network on a designated channel - regional programming may suffice. Do the numbers work for FOX to up the ante to pull SEC teams away from ESPN's grasp? I don't know...

There's no incentive for UT to give up on the LHN without monetary consideration both now and in the future. LSU and Arky have potential to grow our Big12 pie, but by how much in an ala carte world?

Well, FOX and ESPN share the T1 and T2 rights in a weird setup, so they'd have to work it out to pay what CBS and ESPN combine for, plus improve the quality of FOX networks. Then, would ESPN be interested in even helping out since it would be hurting its own product, the SECN, in the process. So FOX would be the one to carry the extra financial load to pull this off. Next, FOX could give LSU and Arky regional deals a la OU and OSU, but they'd need to be guaranteed at least what the SECN projects to pay. It's just highly doubtful.

UT could make it happen.  Deal making takes strange turns - turns we could never believe could happen.  Who, in their right mind, would have thought the Texas legislature would have allowed aggy to retreat to SEC?  Who would have ever thought the SWC would join the Big 8?

Just sayin.

UT doesn't hold THAT much power. This cannot be compared to SWC-Big Eight dealings in a far different landscape (both conferences needed more TV sets and SWC was in disarray). State of Texas letting A&M leave was puzzling, but we did have an Aggy governor.

For Texas to pry LSU from its longtime home, and Arky from the place it went 25 years ago, to the current Big 12? It's more than improbable. How could the Big 12 offer those schools as much money and exposure as they have now? At best, ESPN and FOX would pay what CBS and ESPN are currently paying the 2 schools. But the cons are that FOX needs to improve quality on both its main channel and FS1, we need more spotlight primetime games, and the SEC Network is projected to pay nearly $10M in the future, which we certainly can't make up. Those things along with the lack of "SEC, SEC, SEC" branding makes this a no-brainer for them to stay.

Only way we will be aligned with them is either a) a mass realignment controlled by a central body, or B) Texas and OU join the SEC West (which is clearly the best non-Big 12 option for us).

 

[rtXC]

Where are the other members - besides OU - going if they vote to "dissolve the GOR"?

I'm sure the B1G is interested in KU, but I don't see anyone else finding a home short-term. Just saying. I think you'll see UT and our voting block call Boren this summer.

I think it would be pretty easy to find homes for most programs, especially if we went to the Pac-16.

Texas, OU, Tech, OSU to the Pac-16.

WVU to SEC.

Either KU to Big Ten (with Mizzou) or KU to SEC (and Mizzou stays).

If KU and Mizzou go to Big Ten, SEC grabs KSU and ISU (weird, but they are SEC-like schools that expand the market).

Baylor and TCU join the ACC.

The toughest ones would be WVU, ISU, KSU, BU, and TCU. Still, I don't see the ACC passing up on the 2 private schools, unless they take UH instead. WVU is SEC-or-bust, unless an ACC school joins the Big Ten, or Texas and OU somehow convince the Big Ten to accept WVU. ISU and KSU could go to either the Pac-16, SEC, or maybe even the Big Ten.

I think if Texas and OU worked with the other 4 conferences to plan this out, it would be possible. With the end game being 4 conferences for 4 playoff spots, it is possible. Then again, if we went to all that trouble just to leave, why wouldn't we just work with the Pac, SEC, and Big Ten to raid the ACC and keep the Big 12 together?

 

[rtXC]

There was nothing logical about adding TCU.  Nothing.

Only thing is best Texas program at the time. Small fan base and being in Texas isn't great. Other than on-field success in football and baseball, you are right.

Imagine if the Big 12 brought in WVU, Pitt, Cincy, and Louisville to get to 12.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

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