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Big 12 Expansion Project

The Texas comment was meant to illicit a response. I was just throwing around ridiculous ideas like the artlcle that was linked.

On a serious note, has anybody been able to determine which teams are pro and anti rapid expansion.

I think we can say OU is pro with Texas and apparently KU against. What is your read on the other 7 co-members of the BIGXII?

 
The Texas comment was meant to illicit a response. I was just throwing around ridiculous ideas like the artlcle that was linked.

On a serious note, has anybody been able to determine which teams are pro and anti rapid expansion.

I think we can say OU is pro with Texas and apparently KU against. What is your read on the other 7 co-members of the BIGXII?
My stupid-wild-ass-guess is OU, WVU, and ISU are the only ones who really want expansion. Maybe OSU votes along with big brother. I think Boren can sway a couple more if the numbers back him up this summer.

My gut tells me UT, Tech, BU, and TCU will vote as a block. But, maybe I'm overestimating UT's influence?

 
I have no idea either other than what appears obvious. But, I like that your link is getting this conversation started. Maybe someone else has some info that we are unaware of.

 
The question for Tech, BU & TCU is a tough one. One the one hand, nobody wants to have their recruiting pool diluted and on the other hand, TCU and maybe BU do not have total confidence that they will survive the dissolution of the BIG XII and remain in a power conference.

 
The question for Tech, BU & TCU is a tough one. One the one hand, nobody wants to have their recruiting pool diluted and on the other hand, TCU and maybe BU do not have total confidence that they will survive the dissolution of the BIG XII and remain in a power conference.
When positioned like that, I'm sure all three will be okay adding Houston.

Questions UT and the Big12 need to consider are twofold:

  1. Does OU have outstanding offers with the SEC or B1G?
  2. Will OU leave little brother OSU if given the opportunity? (OK politics allow this?)
We're seeing that the pay-outs for the much ballyhooed SEC Network are 20% of what Clay Travis and his ilk projected - approximately $6MM per team. IMO, a Big12 Network isn't the biggest negotiating chip on the table. OU has a nice T3 programming deal with FOX and Cox Cable that pays as much, if not more than SECn distributions.

IMO, what OU really wants is an 8-game Big12 schedule and a conference championship game. We can have the Big12 Championship without adding members, but is a guaranteed rematch after playing a full round-robin a good idea? An 8-game league schedule gives OU the flexibility to schedule another lucrative home game or another high-profile P5 team that is more appealing to their fans & alumni.

Realistically, the only three programs that are attractive to other P5 leagues are UT, OU, and KU. It's gonna be an interesting summer! I'd love to sit in on the meetings that justify adding any of the proposed G5 programs; BYU, CIN, UH, UCF, USF, MEM, or UConn.

 
Very interesting. I think you are correct about Texas, OU and basketball power Kansas.

I would really like to know if Texas and/or OU already have long term plans to leave the BIG XII. I think the other 7 teams would be looking at these decisions very differently if they had that answer. For now, I think the second tier teams in the conference are thrilled to be allowed to play Texas and OU annually.

I also think your idea about what OU wants holds water. Interesting to look at Boren in that light. Looking at it that way, I can understand the criticism that has been hurled his way.

Actually, I think everybody's public stance on this issue is a lie. I think Texas and OU want to leave and might be attempting to get the second tier schools to act in their own interest so that they can say adios mofos.

Texas

OU

Notre Dame

Nebraska

Kansas

Arkansas

I would bet those 6 would be the core of the new conference that would replace the BIG XII as a power 5 conference.

 
Actually, I think everybody's public stance on this issue is a lie. I think Texas and OU want to leave and might be attempting to get the second tier schools to act in their own interest so that they can say adios mofos.
Texas

OU

Notre Dame

Nebraska

Kansas

Arkansas

I would bet those 6 would be the core of the new conference that would replace the BIG XII as a power 5 conference.
 
Why in the world do UT and OU want to leave?
 
If they wanted out, they'd already be gone. OU did try to join the Pac12 with OSU, but UT balked because of the LHN deal. Pac12 wasn't interested in expanding further without UT.
 
DeLoss Dodds himself worked tirelessly with their AD, Jack Swarbrick, to entice ND to the Big12 during the last round of realignment. Didn't happen, IMO, mainly because most ND alums live in the ACC footprint and they made the Irish a sweetheart deal; part-time football members, full-time for all other sports - including lacrosse.
 
I don't think you'll ever see UT and Nebraska in the same league again - too much bad blood. Arkansas is a possibility if they'd rather play games in TX instead of the southeast. 
 
 
 
Nobody is leaving the Big12 until the Grant of Rights expires in 2025 

http://big12fanatics.com/expansion-project-grant-rights/
You should rephrase this.  OU and UT aren't likely to leave the Big 12 because of the GOR.  The eight dwarfs would do everything they could to stop them.

However, the GOR is meaningless in the unlikely event the conference majority decides to merge with another conference - i.e, the ACC.

UT is the only program that could leave without a major financial hit by the GOR penalty.  With the LHN, the 2nd tier rights loss is almost mitigated.  And, after 2025, the GOR is academic anyway.

Interesting, eh?

 
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Why in the world do UT and OU want to leave?
 
If they wanted out, they'd already be gone. OU did try to join the Pac12 with OSU, but UT balked because of the LHN deal. Pac12 wasn't interested in expanding further without UT.
 
DeLoss Dodds himself worked tirelessly with their AD, Jack Swarbrick, to entice ND to the Big12 during the last round of realignment. Didn't happen, IMO, mainly because most ND alums live in the ACC footprint and they made the Irish a sweetheart deal; part-time football members, full-time for all other sports - including lacrosse.
 
I don't think you'll ever see UT and Nebraska in the same league again - too much bad blood. Arkansas is a possibility if they'd rather play games in TX instead of the southeast. 
I think what happens to all of us is we make the logical assumption that schools do what they do for the benefit of the fans. 

That couldn't be further from the truth.  The only time fan desires come into play is when they affect the almighty dollar.

I'll give my old, tired opinions again - as it applies to our beloved university changing its position with the conference.  Permit me to do this on a step by step basis.

Opinion premise

1.  The University of Texas @ Austin is a monster and trying to get it to move is like trying to turn the Titanic around in Lady Bird Lake.  So the first problem is simply logistic.

2.  Never forget this and I will come back to it in a minute.  Money, cash, lucre, pesos, dollars, bottom line - the core driving psychic of the university's existence.  From the Texas legislature down to the illegal alien mopping the classroom floors.  This is why the university exists today.  If we had no sports programs at all, this would still be the driving reason for the school to open its classroom doors.  Okay, later on this.

3.  Power - UT is in the top five of powerful universities in this country.  It will not relinquish this under any circumstances.  Nor will it take the remotest perceived chance of losing its power.

4.  Politics - The school is a political animal and, as such, is affected by the political whims of whomever is currently the power of the state.

5.  Administration - puppets to the lege and to whomever hold the majority of the purse strings.

6.  Student body - Ha, ha, ha.

7.  Alumni - only as they affect the cash flow of operating costs and new construction.

Premise opinions

1.  If you think this could change, I suggest you buy a lottery ticket.  Your big day is coming.

2.  As the conference stands now, UT is still the center piece and the existing power.  The Big 12 is the best vehicle to a national championship and therefore - additional revenues.  And it needs revenues - oh, how it needs them.  UT has an operating cost that is bigger than some small countries GNP. so it doesn't give a diddly about anything that would be a liability rather than a financial asset.  So when we opine about lovely little scenarios, without taking money into consideration, we are just whistling Dixie.  Because if UT ain't making money on the deal, there is no deal.

3.  There is no scenario whereby UT joins another conference that it will retain the power it has in the Big 12.  And power is, you guessed it, money.

4.  Aggy literally did UT a favor by retreating to the SEC.  It set a precedent whereby UT doesn't have to piggyback TTU if it moves to another conference.  That being said, Baylor has some powerful members of congress and they certainly affected the talks of moving to the PAC without them.

5.  This paradigm could finally change with the hiring of the Chancellor.  Heroes don't put up with outside interference very well.  At least that is what I hope.

6.  Only if they affect the bottom line.

7.  UT being a political organization and a whore, will always be guided by the whims of idiots with money.

So, if we use the bottom line as a basis for considering changes to the Big 12, it creates an interesting and new perspective on how this can be achieved - doesn't it?

 
You should rephrase this.  OU and UT aren't likely to leave the Big 12 because of the GOR.  The eight dwarfs would do everything they could to stop them.

However, the GOR is meaningless in the unlikely event the conference majority decides to merge with another conference - i.e, the ACC.

UT is the only program that could leave without a major financial hit by the GOR penalty.  With the LHN, the 2nd tier rights loss is almost mitigated.  And, after 2025, the GOR is academic anyway.

Interesting, eh?
  1. I don't see a merger with the ACC happening, do you? Maybe after 2025. But, if so, why not B12 + SEC?
  2. UT loses both its T1 and T2 television rights if it breaks the GoR. Not saying UT can't afford to forfeit their TV revenues, but we won't for the reasons you pointed out earlier. Money talks, BS walks. Plus, it would kinda defeat keeping the B12 together in the first place.
 
I do think you are right that atm did Texas a favor. The ties that bind were the strongest with them. However, I think you jump a bit ahead of the game by saying that the agy move decouples Tech from Texas. Tech and Baylor will use whatever political clout they can muster to prevent Texas leaving them in the dust. It would be to the dwarves' advantage to keep those ties in tact and I suppose even dwarves are whores for that bottom line. Losing Texas as an annual opponent would be devastating for everyone in the conference (except OU, because I think that is Texas' rival).

If Texas wants to decouple from the also rans I believe they may have to go independent first, then after the dust has settled they would be free to do whatever they want.

 
I do think you are right that atm did Texas a favor. The ties that bind were the strongest with them. However, I think you jump a bit ahead of the game by saying that the agy move decouples Tech from Texas. Tech and Baylor will use whatever political clout they can muster to prevent Texas leaving them in the dust. It would be to the dwarves' advantage to keep those ties in tact and I suppose even dwarves are whores for that bottom line. Losing Texas as an annual opponent would be devastating for everyone in the conference (except OU, because I think that is Texas' rival).

If Texas wants to decouple from the also rans I believe they may have to go independent first, then after the dust has settled they would be free to do whatever they want.
I think you are quite right.  However, I was once privy to some gossip that indicated the university would fall in with OU, Nebbie, aggy and a couple of others to leverage ISU, KU and, at that time, KSU out of the conference,  Cancel their subscription as it were.  Of course this was some time ago, but I heard a similar scenario has been banded about, lately, as well.

If you read between the lines you will have noted that $$$ was the underlying factor in these discussions.  Surprise, surprise, surprise.  ISU and KU (even with BB) aren't pulling their weight and the membership ain't liking it.

 
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As it applies to this discussion I did not read Gundy's comments as supportive of expansion. I find that interesting because I assumed, like J.B., that OSU would mirror OU's stance.

 
Brand & Culture, pt 2 – The Numbers 

http://big12fanatics.com/expansion-project-brand-culture-pt-2-numbers/#

nm22.7.jpg
Aggy would like to take issue with this - dammit!

 
Football has been, is, and will continue to be the main impetus behind any future realignments.

Why do "Title IX programs say nay nay?"  That doesn't even make sense. None of the non-revenue sports will factor into the equation unless their travel budgets make a move cost-prohibitive. Seemed to work out for WVU to the Big12, didn't it?
Not all schools make the money that UT does.  WVU had to swallow the costs (borrow against the schools revenues) of the Olympic sports in order to join a power 5 conference.  Especially with the additional increase in membership revenues - that it was betting on.

In addition, even with the money UT has, our president said it didn't make economic sense to join the PAC.  Sure, there were other considerations, but everyone just keeps on ignoring that sports programs are all about the bottom line.

 
I believe it is the LHN and not UT that hinders Big XII expansion. They are not the same thing. Nebraska would die to regain their pipeline to Texas high school recruiting and to be able to play in a conference that allowed the recruits families to see their kids play.

Either UT goes independent, which I think is what will happen, or they go to ESPN and work the deal out so that the Big XII Network can happen (including Texas). It might not be what Longhorns want to do but they are going to have to if they want to be in a conference. A contract does not have to be binding if all parties involved (UT & ESPN) agree to change the terms or dissolve it altogether.

ATM allowed the SEC into Texas in general and Houston specifically. TCU's membership gave the kids in the Metroplex a viable option (other than UT and Oklahoma) to stay in their area and play. Texas can adapt or get used to having their available talent pool diluted. Can Texas get into the playoff in the current scenario? Yes. Can they monopolize the talent as they once did? No.

The question is: Is Texas a progressive or conservative institution (not talking national politics). Are they proactive or reactionary?
Logically you appear to be right.  However, winning mitigates everything.  If UT goes back to its powerhouse days, the Big 12 prospers and the 8 dwarfs will shut the hell up. 

In addition, UT needs to tell the SEC powers that it is taking off its gloves.  We are going to recruit like they do and we are going to televise high school games in the southern states.  What is the toothless NCAA going to do about it?  In addition, UT is going to start holding football camps in Alabama, Louisiana, Florida and Georgia.  We are going to flood the SEC markets with PR signs and ads about UT.

We have the money and we can do it.

 
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