The Big 12

[HornSolo]

Now that the courts have ruled against Maryland and they have to pony up the 50M to leave lets see what happens. Maryland is broke and without B1G help they may have to stay put....What does that do to Louisville as the last one invited.

Could the Big 12 by default get a do-over in regards to Louisville......could get interesting.

 

[ridik01]

I see two options, the big 12 implodes or the ACC falls from within and the big 12 expands to the east.

Texas would never join the ACC, teams in the ACC do not bring the crowds that Texas needs.

 

[Brasky]

Clearly you don't know too much about conference realignment. The SeC has a clause that does not allow any other Florida team, also Florida owns a veto power that could veto FSU from joining.

I will readily eat my words but I think this is wrong. The veto is more or less a handshake agreement between the schools from what I understand. Some say that it would be enforced for schools like Florida trying to block FSU or SC blcoking Clemson. I've also heard that if A&M tried to block Texas that the SEC member schools would appropriately laugh at aggy. So I think it's a little arbitrary and not an actual bylaw.

 

[ridik01]

I will readily eat my words but I think this is wrong. The veto is more or less a handshake agreement between the schools from what I understand. Some say that it would be enforced for schools like Florida trying to block FSU or SC blcoking Clemson. I've also heard that if A&M tried to block Texas that the SEC member schools would appropriately laugh at aggy. So I think it's a little arbitrary and not an actual bylaw.

But as long standing members of the SEC, I think Florida and SC would have more power with their veto than Aggy.

I could see SC, Georgia, and Florida all vetoing FSU because SC and Georgia would not want Georgia Tech and Clemson joining soon after.

 

[ridik01]

The ACC has 3 supreme football schools. I'm not going to sit here and believe ACC homers and think the ACC is a good football conference.

The ACC has FSU, VT, and Clemson...maybe Ga Tech and Miami if they ever rebound. The rest of those schools don't attract large crowds to football stadiums and have pitiful football teams.

The new 4-team playoff system is going to take SOS for top rankings, do you really think the board is going to place FSU in the top 4 after they beat down Duke?

 

[joebobb]

Ridik - The ACC has 1 football school and that is FSU. Clemson is a good football school but are akin to an OK State or Tex Tech type program. Solid in football but not every year. Small population but good fan base but the number 2 or 3 school in their state. South Carolinans identify with South Carolina more than Clemson and Clemson has a small pocket in the NW corner of the state. VA Tech is not a good team as you have seen the last few years. They had a good run in the Big East with the Vick's around 12 years ago and have been living off that legacy. They are pretenders like Miami, but they draw well. Miami could be good again but they will always be the #3 school in Florida, they do not draw well and never really have. They really do not add much value anymore. They were good for the BIg East and ACC but not much value outside that footprint. I think their best days are past them.

FSU is a legit power because they can recruit the talent and they have a national brand and draw well. Their Achilles is they play in the ACC and they have no real competition. Remember their first 10 years in the conference when they did not lose a conference game? Well the ACC really is not much better since then. Clemson has stepped up a bit. Why on earth would TEX want to hitch its wagon to that bunch of losers?

If the BIG XII expands - Cincy and UCF are the 2 obvious choices for the reasons the author mentioned. Also they are top football recruiting states in major markets and large schools. Combined they have over 100k students. That is a lot of alumni graduating each year to build the brand. WVU and TCU have approximately 25k students combined. Not the same reach. UCF and Cincy would rank as the #1 and #3 largest schools in the Big XII with Texas at #2. Both are brands on the rise and they both bring the east coast markets to the table, which could be key to coaxing an FSU and Clemson to join down the line. I like BYU too because of their fan base but they do not have the same recruiting area and still is a fairly small market.

 

[Brasky]

But as long standing members of the SEC, I think Florida and SC would have more power with their veto than Aggy.
I could see SC, Georgia, and Florida all vetoing FSU because SC and Georgia would not want Georgia Tech and Clemson joining soon after.

Completely agree. I think the longstanding members would have their objections upheld and the schools you mentioned would be left out. I think the SEC would probably jump all over OU and in some ways I think they'd maybe keep us out in an attempt to isolate us and not give us an easy path to re-establishing recruiting dominance. Just my thoughts not based on anything. It doesn't seem there is any interest from Texas to go SEC anyway.

 

[ridik01]

Ridik - The ACC has 1 football school and that is FSU. Clemson is a good football school but are akin to an OK State or Tex Tech type program. Solid in football but not every year. Small population but good fan base but the number 2 or 3 school in their state. South Carolinans identify with South Carolina more than Clemson and Clemson has a small pocket in the NW corner of the state. VA Tech is not a good team as you have seen the last few years. They had a good run in the Big East with the Vick's around 12 years ago and have been living off that legacy. They are pretenders like Miami, but they draw well. Miami could be good again but they will always be the #3 school in Florida, they do not draw well and never really have. They really do not add much value anymore. They were good for the BIg East and ACC but not much value outside that footprint. I think their best days are past them.
FSU is a legit power because they can recruit the talent and they have a national brand and draw well. Their Achilles is they play in the ACC and they have no real competition. Remember their first 10 years in the conference when they did not lose a conference game? Well the ACC really is not much better since then. Clemson has stepped up a bit. Why on earth would TEX want to hitch its wagon to that bunch of losers?

If the BIG XII expands - Cincy and UCF are the 2 obvious choices for the reasons the author mentioned. Also they are top football recruiting states in major markets and large schools. Combined they have over 100k students. That is a lot of alumni graduating each year to build the brand. WVU and TCU have approximately 25k students combined. Not the same reach. UCF and Cincy would rank as the #1 and #3 largest schools in the Big XII with Texas at #2. Both are brands on the rise and they both bring the east coast markets to the table, which could be key to coaxing an FSU and Clemson to join down the line. I like BYU too because of their fan base but they do not have the same recruiting area and still is a fairly small market.

I agree 100%!

I cannot take the ACC seriously and I foresee FSU trying to escape the ACC after the 4-team playoff system is created.

For the big 12 to flourish we need to expand to the East coast, if we stay at 10 we're screwed.

We currently have 4 teams out of the 10 that are dead weight(WVU, UK, Iowa St, TCU), out of those 4, 3 can't draw a crowd(TCU, UK, Iowa state). Which means we are the weakest and will be the first to be cannibalized by a larger conference.

 

[TheContractor]

Now that the courts have ruled against Maryland and they have to pony up the 50M to leave lets see what happens. Maryland is broke and without B1G help they may have to stay put....What does that do to Louisville as the last one invited.
Could the Big 12 by default get a do-over in regards to Louisville......could get interesting.

Didn't know rulings came back, thanks. Any other info courts said?

 

[joebobb]

Cincy and UCF will sell out for the right teams, also when they win the crowds show up. Cincy is a pro-sports town but also a big football town. They will draw 40k to BIG XII games and then 65-70 to there. Cincy and UCF do not bring that exciting of a brand, nor a long history, Cincy is the same as Louisville. Louisville hit its potential and peaked a little earlier than Cincy, but they are essentially the same school with Cincy being a larger market and a pro sports town.

UCF is one of the fastest growing schools in one of the fastest growing markets. They are not a pro-sports town (outside of NBA) and there is a ton of untapped potential there. UCF is going to be what Miami was in the 1980s because of their size, and central location. The only thing they are missing is the Miami glitz and glam. UCF has potential to be a leader in the Big XII, Cincy has potential to be a school like OK State or Baylor who can put together a few competitive years but not upset the balance of power. Neither will be bottom dewllers which is what we want anyway.

 

[joebobb]

No final ruling on MD yet, just a procedural matter where the ACC won. Helps the ACC's negotiating power some but they could still lose big once the court case happens.

 

[HornSolo]

Associated Press

FYI,

RALEIGH, N.C. -- A North Carolina appeals court Tuesday preserved a lawsuit that could force the University of Maryland to pay a $52 million fee for leaving the Atlantic Coast Conference.

The ACC sued Maryland after the school said last November it was leaving for the Big Ten Conference. That lawsuit came after the ACC voted to increase the exit penalty to three times the conference's operating budget, which the appeals court calculated at nearly $52.3 million.

A state Court of Appeals panel rejected Maryland's bid to dismiss the lawsuit. It was filed in Greensboro, where the ACC is headquartered. The three-judge panel's unanimous decision means Maryland has no automatic right to a state Supreme Court appeal. But the higher state court could choose to hear an appeal.

The $52 million fee is the highest penalty ever assessed on a school for leaving an athletic conference and would be nearly equal to the school's yearly athletic budget, Maryland's attorney general's office said in May. The school's athletic department last year cut seven sports teams as it struggled with multimillion-dollar annual losses.

Maryland's representative on the ACC's Council of Presidents, which has the authority to alter the conference's governing constitution, voted against increasing the penalty from what the court calculated would have been a fee of about $17.4 million.

Despite Maryland's negative vote on increasing the exit fee, "each member, including the University of Maryland, has agreed to be bound by the vote of the Council," Judge Robert N. Hunter Jr. wrote in the appeals court's decision.

The university sued the ACC in Maryland in January, calling the amount an illegal penalty. A Maryland judge has put the school's lawsuit on hold until North Carolina courts issue a final judgment. Maryland's ACC departure is scheduled for July.

Maryland's attorneys argued in the North Carolina lawsuit that the ACC's lawsuit should be dismissed because the school is an arm of the state, and Maryland and other states enjoy sovereign immunity that protects them from lawsuits. North Carolina's Court of Appeals rejected that argument, saying it doesn't apply to the ACC's claim that the penalty is due because Maryland broke its contract.

North Carolina's courts don't allow state officials to claim they don't have to respect contracts, so the sovereign immunity claim "will not be extended to allow defendants to escape a determination as to their rights and obligations under an alleged contract," Hunter wrote.

Maryland officials were considering their options after Tuesday's ruling, said David Paulson, a spokesman for Maryland Attorney General Douglas Gansler. University representatives did not return messages seeking comment.