Recruiting versus coaching discussion

[echeese]

Let's not act like Texas isn't going to have talent next year. We have guys who were highly recruited coming out of high school:
QB: David Ash (3) or Tyrone Swoopes (4)

RB: Malcolm Brown (5)

WR: Jaxon Shipley (4)

WR: Kendall Sanders (4)

WR: Marcus Johnson (4)

TE: Geoff Swaim (3)

OT: Desmond Harrison (3)

OG: Sedrick Flowers (4)

C: Dom Espinosa (4)

OG: Curtis Riser (4) or Darius James (4)

OT: Kent Perkins (4)

DE: Cedric Reed (4)

DT: Malcom Brown (5)

DT: Desmond Jackson (4)

DE: Shiro Davis (4)

LB: Jordan Hicks (5)

LB: Peter Jinkens (4)

LB: Steve Edmond (4)

CB: Quandre Diggs (4)

CB: Duke Thomas (4)

S: Mykkele Thompson (4)

S: Josh Turner (4)

With Ash at QB, we have 3 5*'s (14%), 15 4*'s (68%) and 4 3*'s (18%)

With Swoopes at QB, we have 3 5*'s (14%), 16 4*'s (73%) and 3 3*'s (14%)

Of those starting 22, half are seniors if you include Ash. Their backups:

QB: Swoopes (4)

WR: Jacorey Warrick (4)

TE: MJ McFarland -- I guess -- (4)

OT: Kennedy Estelle -- if eligible -- (4) or Camron Hughes -- if he's still around -- (4)

C: Jake Raulerson (4)

DE: Bryce Cottrell (3)

DT: Hassan Ridgeway (4)

LB: Tim Cole (4)

LB: Dalton Santos (3)

CB: Bryson Echols (4)

S: Leroy Scott (3)

The cupboard isn't bare. The bulk of the upperclassmen in the program were highly ranked recruits. If Wickline can find a QB and turn water into wine on the OL like he's done for years and Strong can turn the defense into the machine he has everywhere he's been we aren't far off.

good point. . . .key (as you said) is QB play. . . .

This D was DAMN good after GR took over. . .other than OSU . .frankly pretty dominate. . .

 

[LongviewLobo01]

I'm not worried in any way, shape or form with the defense. I like Greg Robinson and he's a very good DC, but I think Strong is a much better college DC than GR. I think Strong is as good of a defensive mind as any coach in the college game so we will be fine on that side of the ball.

I think we are a year away on offense. It's going to take that long to implement what Wickline and those guys are trying to do on that side of the ball so I think this year we will see some good things, but it won't be until 2015 until we really see where they are going to go with it.

 

[MBHORNSFAN]

Let's not act like Texas isn't going to have talent next year. We have guys who were highly recruited coming out of high school:
QB: David Ash (3) or Tyrone Swoopes (4)

RB: Malcolm Brown (5)

WR: Jaxon Shipley (4)

WR: Kendall Sanders (4)

WR: Marcus Johnson (4)

TE: Geoff Swaim (3)

OT: Desmond Harrison (3)

OG: Sedrick Flowers (4)

C: Dom Espinosa (4)

OG: Curtis Riser (4) or Darius James (4)

OT: Kent Perkins (4)

DE: Cedric Reed (4)

DT: Malcom Brown (5)

DT: Desmond Jackson (4)

DE: Shiro Davis (4)

LB: Jordan Hicks (5)

LB: Peter Jinkens (4)

LB: Steve Edmond (4)

CB: Quandre Diggs (4)

CB: Duke Thomas (4)

S: Mykkele Thompson (4)

S: Josh Turner (4)

With Ash at QB, we have 3 5*'s (14%), 15 4*'s (68%) and 4 3*'s (18%)

With Swoopes at QB, we have 3 5*'s (14%), 16 4*'s (73%) and 3 3*'s (14%)

Of those starting 22, half are seniors if you include Ash. Their backups:

QB: Swoopes (4)

WR: Jacorey Warrick (4)

TE: MJ McFarland -- I guess -- (4)

OT: Kennedy Estelle -- if eligible -- (4) or Camron Hughes -- if he's still around -- (4)

C: Jake Raulerson (4)

DE: Bryce Cottrell (3)

DT: Hassan Ridgeway (4)

LB: Tim Cole (4)

LB: Dalton Santos (3)

CB: Bryson Echols (4)

S: Leroy Scott (3)

The cupboard isn't bare. The bulk of the upperclassmen in the program were highly ranked recruits. If Wickline can find a QB and turn water into wine on the OL like he's done for years and Strong can turn the defense into the machine he has everywhere he's been we aren't far off.

I agree that we have lots of 4* talent on campus right now. I am concerned about the trend now. If Strong can have a great 2014 I think he has a chance to turn it but if for some reason we struggle and go like 7-5.. We are in deep trouble.

 

[HornNdriftwood]

We've got plenty of talent to win every game on our schedule. What we need is coaching.

 

[LongviewLobo01]

Mike I think it's too early to worry about any trends regarding Strong. The guy has been a good recruiter at every stop he's coached at. It's unfair to judge him based on results within 2 months on the job.

The first recruiting class that I think we can really judge Strong on regarding the in state talent is going to be 2016. 2015 is another class that he's going to have to play major catch up on. Mack had already found a way to screw up the early momentum we had with that class and Strong is stepping into a situation nearly as tough as 2014 has been for him. Sumlin and Briles and Miles have developed of relationships with the 2015 kids for a solid year plus that Strong is having to try and develop on the fly. If you're going to be critical of anyone for the situation that we are in, Mack and the powers that be who waited so long to get rid of him are the main culprits.

At the end of the day I understand why so many people are pessimistic right now. And I think some of it is deserved. We are going to struggle more in state than we have in years. But if we recoup those losses with kids from Florida, California, Georgia, Louisiana and the like and finish with a top 5-7 class are we going to complain? To be honest I'd rather recruit more from those places because I think there's an advantage to going after kids from there. Texas high school recruits are generally much more developed than kids from lower income Louisiana and Florida high school's. When they get into college and strength train and work with better coaching for the first times in their lives they develop into monsters. LSU has been doing this with New Orleans kids for years.

 

[MBHORNSFAN]

Mike I think it's too early to worry about any trends regarding Strong. The guy has been a good recruiter at every stop he's coached at. It's unfair to judge him based on results within 2 months on the job.
The first recruiting class that I think we can really judge Strong on regarding the in state talent is going to be 2016. 2015 is another class that he's going to have to play major catch up on. Mack had already found a way to screw up the early momentum we had with that class and Strong is stepping into a situation nearly as tough as 2014 has been for him. Sumlin and Briles and Miles have developed of relationships with the 2015 kids for a solid year plus that Strong is having to try and develop on the fly. If you're going to be critical of anyone for the situation that we are in, Mack and the powers that be who waited so long to get rid of him are the main culprits.

At the end of the day I understand why so many people are pessimistic right now. And I think some of it is deserved. We are going to struggle more in state than we have in years. But if we recoup those losses with kids from Florida, California, Georgia, Louisiana and the like and finish with a top 5-7 class are we going to complain? To be honest I'd rather recruit more from those places because I think there's an advantage to going after kids from there. Texas high school recruits are generally much more developed than kids from lower income Louisiana and Florida high school's. When they get into college and strength train and work with better coaching for the first times in their lives they develop into monsters. LSU has been doing this with New Orleans kids for years.

Valid points

 

[doc longhorn]

Someone please tell me the difference between a 5* and a 4*? Is the 5* an inch taller or a tenth faster? I don't know.

In fact, what is the difference between a 5* and a 3*? Did one attend a 3A school and the other a 5A school - hence the difference in star ratings?

I've never heard or seen a true definition of the difference.

 

[texasdalton]

These all are valid points but with the playoff system I think we have the potential to see a version where you have to be a good team to make the playoffs but a hot team to make a run and win it all. I dont think you have to be the best anymore

 

[jfwilljr]

I agree that we have lots of 4* talent on campus right now. I am concerned about the trend now. If Strong can have a great 2014 I think he has a chance to turn it but if for some reason we struggle and go like 7-5.. We are in deep trouble.

The problem I have with this argument is that if you take it to its logical conclusion, your theory basically is that if a program doesn't do well, it won't recruit well, which in turn means it won't do well the next year, which means it won't recruit well the next year, which perpetuates an ever descending pattern of failure into a football abyss. If this were true, no program would ever have the ability to recover, and clearly that isn't the case. Popularity of football programs and the corresponding recruiting associated with them are not that static; in fact, they vacillate back and forth greatly and there are many more factors that play into it than win-loss records. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the heart of your above-referenced post is the last sentence, wherein you basically state Strong has to have a "great 2014" to turn things around and if the team record is something like "7-5" the program is in "deep trouble." It appears to me that your whole theory is really based on the fact that you don't think Strong is the right coach for this job...that clearly he can't turn it around unless he has a great year immediately. I'm ok with that opinion; you're entitled to it and you may end up being right. But let's not lay your concerns about obtaining top talent in the future at the feet of a "trend" of 4-5 weeks. I personally think Texas could go 6-6 or 7-5 this year, be competitive in every game (i.e. not get blown out at OU) and still use that as a springboard for Strong to strengthen next year's class of recruits, but then again, I'm willing to at least consider the possibility that Strong may be successful at Texas.

 

[Heloteshorn]

In the state of Texas it's about evaluation, fit, and most importantly coaching. This state has tons of really good players that are off the beaten path. Schools like Oregon St, KState and Utah St have found these guys and turned them into fine players.

I'm excited about this new era.

 

[since_DKR]

Mike I think it's too early to worry about any trends regarding Strong. The guy has been a good recruiter at every stop he's coached at. It's unfair to judge him based on results within 2 months on the job.
The first recruiting class that I think we can really judge Strong on regarding the in state talent is going to be 2016. 2015 is another class that he's going to have to play major catch up on. Mack had already found a way to screw up the early momentum we had with that class and Strong is stepping into a situation nearly as tough as 2014 has been for him. Sumlin and Briles and Miles have developed of relationships with the 2015 kids for a solid year plus that Strong is having to try and develop on the fly. If you're going to be critical of anyone for the situation that we are in, Mack and the powers that be who waited so long to get rid of him are the main culprits.

At the end of the day I understand why so many people are pessimistic right now. And I think some of it is deserved. We are going to struggle more in state than we have in years. But if we recoup those losses with kids from Florida, California, Georgia, Louisiana and the like and finish with a top 5-7 class are we going to complain? To be honest I'd rather recruit more from those places because I think there's an advantage to going after kids from there. Texas high school recruits are generally much more developed than kids from lower income Louisiana and Florida high school's. When they get into college and strength train and work with better coaching for the first times in their lives they develop into monsters. LSU has been doing this with New Orleans kids for years.

Lobo, I loved and agree with your posts until you had to hit the "hot button" and start the Mack bashing once again, without one iota of evidence to back up what you say. Don't you think it is time to let that go? Can you please give me some FACTUAL evidence of what Mack did to "screw up any momentum" we had with the 2015 class? Other than the fact that I will dispute you on any Mack bashing, I enjoy your posts. Thank you.

 

[Sejjr]

Lobo, I loved and agree with your posts until you had to hit the "hot button" and start the Mack bashing once again, without one iota of evidence to back up what you say. Don't you think it is time to let that go? Can you please give me some FACTUAL evidence of what Mack did to "screw up any momentum" we had with the 2015 class? Other than the fact that I will dispute you on any Mack bashing, I enjoy your posts. Thank you.

All due respect, but how do you perceive "Mack Bashing" in his comment? The fact remains, Mack Brown should have been replaced a year earlier after 3 very sub-par seasons. Mack Brown made the decision to bring back Manny Diaz. Mack Brown made the decisions in recruiting that prevented success on the field, or, he was responsible for under-developing the talent if you believe in the star rankings. Either way, the current state of the Texas program has nothing to do with Charlie Strong. I will always appreciate what Mack did to turn around this program after the McWilliams and Mackovic years. But to refuse to acknowledge the damage he created in the program over the last few seasons, and the messy divorce, is akin to whistling past the graveyard.

 

[echeese]

We've got plenty of talent to win every game on our schedule. What we need is coaching.

And good to great QB play. . .

The glaring hole for 2014

 

[echeese]

We've got plenty of talent to win every game on our schedule. What we need is coaching.

And good to great QB play. . .

The glaring hole for 2014