Oklahoma Stands Tall Against Racism, Weak Against Violence

[J.B. TexasEx]

Yeah, I know we've beaten the Oklahoma SAE story to death the past 48 hours...but - NEWSFLASH - noted SEC lapdog, Clay Travis, finally wrote an editorial that didn't suck IMO.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/oklahoma-stands-tall-against-racism-weak-against-violence-031015

* EDIT - I didn't see Matt Cotcher's post in the Burnt Ends thread. My bad

Why do we punish words more than actions in today's society? Why is Oklahoma's president willing to give a second chance to a talented football player who punched a fellow student on video, but immediately condemns students that say horrible things on video? Is the media to blame? In today's society is punishment directly tied to how much attention something receives? I'd hate to believe that. Because in the grand scheme of things aren't acts always worse than words? Otherwise we need to change our criminal justice system and give people life in prison for unpopular opinions.

Punishing people for unpopular opinions is infinitely scarier to me than any unpopular opinion anyone could ever have.

 

[MikeV73]

Is hypocritical. 6'5" 230# men punching women in the face at bars or in domestic disturbances at home doesn't warrant a dismissal from school? These clowns don't even care about the education and get to stay. With that said, the racist frat guys being shown the door is the correct move.

 

[Agmaniacmike]

The assaults are isolated incidents. The SAE incident is a group issue. Groups of people are more likely to paint a picture of a university than an individual.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

The assaults are repeated incidents among high profile athletes, such as Mixon and DGB. The SAE incident is a group issue and happened only once that we know of among a group of people we didn't know before and will never know again. Groups of people can almost be as impactful at painting a picture of a university than a collection of high profile individuals repeating over a period of time.

FIFY

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

The assaults are isolated incidents. The SAE incident is a group issue. Groups of people are more likely to paint a picture of a university than an individual.

Why does a small group of drunken frat boys represent OU? Only a small percentage of the student body is Greek. Of course, I'm trying to use logic on an aggie whose entire belief system is rooted in military traditions that haven't been relevant for over 50 years.

:huh:

 

[streettopeschel]

The assaults are isolated incidents. The SAE incident is a group issue. Groups of people are more likely to paint a picture of a university than an individual.

does that apply to the corps?

 

[Bear19]

does that apply to the corps?

Including corps turds brandishing swords against unarmed students in the middle of the football field?

 

[Agmaniacmike]

I don't happen to believe what I posted, but that is one of the justifications behind the issue Clay Travis brings up. I think the OU situation at hand is much more indicative of frat culture. It is derived upon exclusivity and pretentious behavior. I actually am not shocked one bit when these things happen in frats, as most, not all, narrow their group into a sub-culture that castigates those that differ from it. What should be noted is that athletes are always given more free reign in these instances. For instance, Mixon and DGB's actions would have gotten them expelled regardless of being charged or not if they were everyday students, not just from the football team, but the university. Comparing 2-3 instances of bad behavior amongst the football program and condemning it as a trend is just as poor as characterizing the whole university as racist based off the actions of some Greeks.

On the corps issue, you won't hear an argument from me. Maybe 30-40 years ago I would have a lot more respect for them, but stepping on campus made me see them in a much worse light. Most thought they owned the campus and frankly didn't belong on a college campus if not for a Corps scholarship. With that being said, there were many great people in the Corps that represented the best that A&M had to offer and had a great foundation that will pay this country huge dividends somewhere down the line. Also, I'll say that most Corps men in their 40s and above seem to be great men who raised other great men, back then I'm sure it was much more than a glorified ROTC camp and being a member stood for much more than it does now.

I don't understand why you all seem to rag on the supposed military tradition of A&M. It is something the whole state should be proud of and frankly, is one of my few instances of disdain I have for UT-Austin. I will never like the liberal, anti-military culture that persists in Austin, and it represents the exact opposite of what this state has stood for throughout its storied history. While A&M's Corps culture may be "fake army", at least we don't parade around in anti-Vietnam war veteran protests spitting on soldiers coming home in College Station as was prevalent in Austin in the 60's and 70's. Sorry to bring politics in there, but this is one of the few issues I have never been able to reconcile. Why would a rural patriotic conservative have any interest in supporting the University of Texas? I'm actually interested to see the responses. I'm sure I'll get more thoughtful responses than my mom and dad rooted for them.

 

[Sirhornsalot]

The Corps has been around for what? 100 years or some such? And nobody really knows much about them outside of those at Texas who laugh at them.

But give a kid from Kerrville just two years - just one single individual - and he walks away being the one thing people associate with aggy the most.

Imagine that.

 

[Agmaniacmike]

When I think UT, I think world class university, top notch athletics programs, fun city/location. However, at the same time, I also associate them with planned parenthood/abortion advocacy, anti-military culture, hipsters, and unfriendly people. There are positives and negatives in just about every case. I'm thankful that in most cases I can see past the negative and keep the positives attribute entrenched above the negatives. However, that culture that doesn't value life or those that protect liberty is pretty tough for me to ignore given my background. It is probably more of an indictment on the city than the university, but it is rather tough to keep the association separate. I actually believe someone from Daingerfield can accurately perceive that foundation I am talking about. Small, rural towns always seem to value those simple things more than those from the big cities, and I'll always hold those tenants to be true, whether I live in New York City or Dime Box.

 

[dillohorn]

Texas A & M at Norman.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

I don't understand why you all seem to rag on the supposed military tradition of A&M. It is something the whole state should be proud of and frankly, is one of my few instances of disdain I have for UT-Austin. I will never like the liberal, anti-military culture that persists in Austin, and it represents the exact opposite of what this state has stood for throughout its storied history. While A&M's Corps culture may be "fake army", at least we don't parade around in anti-Vietnam war veteran protests spitting on soldiers coming home in College Station as was prevalent in Austin in the 60's and 70's. Sorry to bring politics in there, but this is one of the few issues I have never been able to reconcile. Why would a rural patriotic conservative have any interest in supporting the University of Texas? I'm actually interested to see the responses. I'm sure I'll get more thoughtful responses than my mom and dad rooted for them.

 

 
I can't speak for every "t-sip", but many people outside A&M don't think of the Corps as any kind of distinguished military unit. It's documented that most don't accept commissions upon graduation, so really they're no different than any other ROTC. Many aggies did indeed serve with distinction in numerous battles and wars. For them I have the utmost respect as I do for Texas-Exes who serve (DKR - Texas Memorial Stadium, right?)
 
The ones who get a "Corps scholarship" (rumored to be students with sub-par grades) - not so much. Oh, and by the way, your ROTC really ain't that great at playing Army either. 
http://www.dailytexanonline.com/2014/12/01/ut-rotc-program-named-best-in-region
 
Lastly, to stereotype "t-sips" as anti-war and ultra-liberal is painting us with too broad a brush. But carry on, aggie.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

When I think UT, I think world class university, top notch athletics programs, fun city/location. However, at the same time, I also associate them with planned parenthood/abortion advocacy, anti-military culture, hipsters, and unfriendly people. There are positives and negatives in just about every case. I'm thankful that in most cases I can see past the negative and keep the positives attribute entrenched above the negatives. However, that culture that doesn't value life or those that protect liberty is pretty tough for me to ignore given my background. It is probably more of an indictment on the city than the university, but it is rather tough to keep the association separate. I actually believe someone from Daingerfield can accurately perceive that foundation I am talking about. Small, rural towns always seem to value those simple things more than those from the big cities, and I'll always hold those tenants to be true, whether I live in New York City or Dime Box.

Associating ATX politics with UT is what is called a false causal relationship. Honest mistake, when you consider that Travis County is one of the few that votes blue in TX. And, yeah, ATX is and has been more liberal than small, rural, east TX towns.

But, I can assure that not everyone who graduated with a BBA from UT votes blue. I don't

 

[java]

Agmaniacmike, I will address your question. There may be errors due to iPhone posting.

I arrived on the UT campus, from a small town, in the early 70's. The activism was something that I had never before seen. Did it change my core values, absolutely not, but it did provide insight into other's opinions and ideals. It also made me analyze, question, evaluate, and ultimately determine what my opinion was on those issues.

UT Austin is a diverse campus with bright inquisitive minds. Students are encouraged to think for themselves and explore ideas. What you call liberal, I call exposure to a larger world within the relatively safe environment of The University. This, imo, is one of the critical components of a broad-based education. It prepares graduates for life after their time at school, much more thoroughly than the more rigid, homogenous atmosphere of an institution like A&M.

UT produced Admiral McRaven and Walter Cronkite. A&M produced Rick Perry.

There is more, but time doesn't allow. I understand you love A&M. I understand that, but UT has so much more to offer. I say that, even though there are Ags in my family that I love dearly.

Edit: Most become more conservative as they age. I have seen it play out time and again. Those I know with a broader based education, seem to retain the ability to at least entertain other ideas. Many who went to A&M struggle with that. It's possible that it is simply the Ags that I know, but I believe it is at least in part due to the education.

 

[primal defense]

When I think UT, I think world class university, top notch athletics programs, fun city/location. However, at the same time, I also associate them with planned parenthood/abortion advocacy, anti-military culture, hipsters, and unfriendly people. There are positives and negatives in just about every case. I'm thankful that in most cases I can see past the negative and keep the positives attribute entrenched above the negatives. However, that culture that doesn't value life or those that protect liberty is pretty tough for me to ignore given my background. It is probably more of an indictment on the city than the university, but it is rather tough to keep the association separate. I actually believe someone from Daingerfield can accurately perceive that foundation I am talking about. Small, rural towns always seem to value those simple things more than those from the big cities, and I'll always hold those tenants to be true, whether I live in New York City or Dime Box.

I lived in Austin for many years and I never found the people to be unfriendly. Maybe, if you didn't wear your aggie T-shirt people would be more friendly to you.

 

[doc longhorn]

The assaults are isolated incidents. The SAE incident is a group issue. Groups of people are more likely to paint a picture of a university than an individual.

With all due respect, Mike, the OU football team is a pretty big group as well.  If they can expel a couple of racist SAE members, what is the problem with expelling a couple of woman beating OU football team members?

The OU administration is a bunch of scumbag hypocrites.

This is my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[doc longhorn]

Give Mike a break, guys.  Sure he is an aggie, but he isn't Hitler.

He is just very confused sometimes.

P.S. - The only unfriendly people in Austin, that I know of, are the Cali transfers that think they are smarter than Texans.  And the only people that want to keep Austin weird are basically from the liberal arts college.  And what is weirder than the aggy Corps anyway?

And the "hippies" left Austin in the 70's - to go to Cali (where weird actually exists).  What you are calling hippies are actually graduates - still trying to pay off their student loans.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

And what is weirder than the aggy Corps anyway?

Lulz...

I know many aggies who mocked the Corps while attending A&M, but are now quick to pick up the cudgel to defend their buffoonery. 

 

[streettopeschel]

Lulz...

I know many aggies who mocked the Corps while attending A&M, but are now quick to pick up the cudgel to defend their buffoonery.

you can't explain it from inside or understand it from the outside or whatever it is they say to justify para military dog worshipping.