Northwestern athletes seek union membership

[NLeininger]

Yes, I understand the dilemma of being an athlete with no money. I think what some people get upset about is they think the athlete does not appreciate the value of the scholarship and they think that value should be good enough. I think a good way to look at this would be your daughter - that you will pay for her tuition, books, dorm food and room. Because you want her to apply herself and spend all her time studying, she cannot work part time either. She gets no spending money as the free education and room and board should be good enough for her. See, this simply is not right and would not work anyway.
On the flip side, however, that scholarship DOES have huge value and if the fans and sponsers weren't paying the school, there would be no scholarship, room and board and platform to display your skills for the NFL available to the potential recruit at all. So see, this swings both ways.

So it really comes down to the value of the stipend, IMO. How much should it be for a full ride schollie and how much for a partial? I, personally, think that could be decided by auditing how much time is required to fulfill the requirements of the schollie.

What worries me about Strongs policy of living in the dorm is how will that affect the athlete that depended on the difference in the allowance the school gave him for living off campus. This is going to be a problem, I'm afraid.

There are so many costs that are hidden from the student athletes, as I've mentioned a few. Davharjac is the perfect response to my assertion that athletes don't appreciate those costs as they expect all the perks associated with being an athlete but could care less about the costs associated with those perks.

 

[NLeininger]

I do agree that they do get something in return for their services but some student athletes do need more to get by and have some money for entertainment purposes like we all do.
But I do believe they should have some established rights just like workers should. A right to negotiate options for themselves. They should have the option of either taking a scholarship or take a salary in the value of their scholarships.

I don't agree with the NCAA telling student athletes who built a brand while on scholarship that they deserve none of the money in sales from that brand. That I don't think is okay.

Right now, they don't have any established rights. They should at least have established rights or colleges will continue to exploit them without recourse.

Yet the problem is that the athlete's brand is intrinsically tied to the university they play for, i.e. Manziel's brand is not the same if he had played at Northen Illinois, while Jordan Lynch's brand might be much higher had he played at aggy.

 

[Slwilliam]

There are so many costs that are hidden from the student athletes, as I've mentioned a few. Davharjac is the perfect response to my assertion that athletes don't appreciate those costs as they expect all the perks associated with being an athlete but could care less about the costs associated with those perks.

What about the hidden cost of players bodies being put on the line? The after effects of playing so you can smile in stands and rant on message boards? Like I said we can't punish people because they excel at some thing. I'm sorry but I'm going to tell my children same thing my parents told me. Get good grades you get academic scholarship, work hard at sport get athletic scholarship. My parents always maintained they would do whatever to help me get through school but when I graduated those loans would be my responsibility. Luckily I got a full ride. This whole entitlement thing doesn't just apply to rich or poor. It's everyone, it's like we say about the mack brown everyone gets a trophy environment. He got a scholarship and was good and sports but because I wasn't good he should have to suffer like me. That's a insane premise. What to better this world or these generations? Teach them there and winners and there are losers deal with it and make positive out of YOUR unique situation. The rate at which these universities make money to the comparison of what university actually pays to keep student there for 4-5 years is a joke. Plus the idea that these strength coaches are personal trainers is a joke. Strength coaches do train you like every other player on the team and physically and mentally break you down. I've yet to see one of those at golds gym

 

[aowells]

Anyone remember when the olympics was all amateurs?

I miss those days.

Instead of the thrill of young amateur athletes devoting their entire lives to win a medal, we now have the equivalent of the pro-bowl - the world's greatest playing for fun if it isn't too inconvenient to coordinate scheduling with their pro-leagues. And even if they're more skilled, the drama isn't the same. Not to pick on the most obvious sport, but is olympic basketball enertaining to anyone?

CFB isn't exactly the same, but there's a real risk that we lose that spirit if it effectively becomes a pro or semi-pro league. A big part of CFB is how the fans relate to the student athletes - "he's one of us", "he bleeds burnt orange and is diving at the goal line only for the love of his school". The more we separate them from the rest of the student body, pay them, release them from getting an education etc. - the less students and alumni relate and care about their teams.

There are lots of crappy pro and semi-pro ball leagues in this country that nobody cares about. It isn't just a matter of co-branding with a school, there needs to be a real shared experience between the players and fans to maintain the passion that makes it all work.

 

[NLeininger]

What about the hidden cost of players bodies being put on the line? The after effects of playing so you can smile in stands and rant on message boards? Like I said we can't punish people because they excel at some thing. I'm sorry but I'm going to tell my children same thing my parents told me. Get good grades you get academic scholarship, work hard at sport get athletic scholarship. My parents always maintained they would do whatever to help me get through school but when I graduated those loans would be my responsibility. Luckily I got a full ride. This whole entitlement thing doesn't just apply to rich or poor. It's everyone, it's like we say about the mack brown everyone gets a trophy environment. He got a scholarship and was good and sports but because I wasn't good he should have to suffer like me. That's a insane premise. What to better this world or these generations? Teach them there and winners and there are losers deal with it and make positive out of YOUR unique situation. The rate at which these universities make money to the comparison of what university actually pays to keep student there for 4-5 years is a joke. Plus the idea that these strength coaches are personal trainers is a joke. Strength coaches do train you like every other player on the team and physically and mentally break you down. I've yet to see one of those at golds gym

Fine then tie academics into it. If player doesn't graduate in 5 years, he repays everything the school gave him. After all, the whole point of going to college for 95% of the athletes is to get a degree, and the fact that they do excel at something gets them in the door to a student loan free degree that sets them up to succeed in life.

And again we are talking about 2-4 sports that make money at a university, and of those 2-4 sports there are probably a max of 15 athletes that are actually worth paying. So at a normal college that has 15-20 sports they offer to perspective student athletes, we are talking maybe 15 out for 200-400, or 3.75-7.5%. What about the schools that can't afford the stipend, because again there are probably less than 10 AD's that routinely turn a profit because they are having to pay for the strength coaches, the academic counselors, the tutors, the medical, the travel of players but also band, cheerleaders, and trainers, etc.

Like I said it's overly simplistic to say athletes deserve a stipend on top of everything else a university gives them.

 

[doc longhorn]

So then make the athlete pay for it. If you to pay athlete, then make everything they get as a perk for being an athlete a bill. Just like every other student deals with. If they aren't living up to their employment they get terminated, this is the type of system you want to set up, because it would be fair.

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying make the athlete pay for their travel expenses?

I think the simplest was to do it is to calculate the value of the schollie. If tuition, books, fees, room and board comes to $40,000 a semester, pay him an additional $300 a month for spending money and be done with it. Who really gives a damn? It's no skin off anyones nose and we can afford it.

 

[NLeininger]

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying make the athlete pay for their travel expenses?
I think the simplest was to do it is to calculate the value of the schollie. If tuition, books, fees, room and board comes to $40,000 a semester, pay him an additional $300 a month for spending money and be done with it. Who really gives a damn? It's no skin off anyones nose and we can afford it.

Sure Texas can, what about a lot of other colleges where athletics is in the red. Texas is one of 10 or so universities that can afford it.

 

[Bevostuntdouble]

Not trying to sound like an asshole, but that's your fault you have that debt. We punish people for excelling at things now? Next time you get a promotions let the company split your raise to all your co-workers that way it can all be fair despot your hard work. So what should we do with those who get full academic scholarships? Should we punish them? These athletes can't have jobs unlike everyone else. Entitlement is whining and saying "well I had to pay why do they get it free" . Most of these same people cry about things being equal in politics and helping the poor. We can't be survival of the fittest only when is applies to us. So if you are saying these kids get an "education for free" think about how many schools just push students through. "Looking at you sec and unc" just read the article about how many athletes aren't past high school reading levels. The blame first fails on that players parents and that player, but we also have to look at the institutions who allow these short of things to make money off these players. The same players they feel good about trading supposed "education" for them playing a sport and making millions. I am glad to have my free scholarship and the chance to play college football. To say these kids don't even deserve a minimum stipend is crazy.

1. Yes we do punish people who do things well and are successful... See taxes. Piling more responsibility on the shoulders of the successful is what America does.

2. The failure begins WAY before college. If a kid isn't reading at a 4th grade level thaaaaat means their failure began in 3rd grade.

3. How do you pay kids? Do you pay them ALL equally? Performance based? Stars get more? I don't have an answer, just curious as to your theoretical "plan." Do you ONLY pay college football players? Does it happen at all schools or just a few? What's the cap? Cause a school like UT can pay a kid whatever they want while Texas Tech can not. Seems it would greatly tip the scales across the landscape. Thoughts?

4. It seems fair not to give scholarships to student athletes if you are going to pay them like they are employees... Though, solely academic, students may not have the rigorous schedules of student athletes I am sure they would love a monetarily free education, especially since they actually want the education part and will use it.

5. Our society has failed kids and it's getting no better. Paying them is not a fix, at all. I fail to see what there is to gain as a whole here unless you are paying each player a significant salary to play. Like most I think a stipend is a good thing.

6. College has turned into big business. College is also what you make it. You can scam a degree or you can learn something and build a future. Colleges don't care either way as long as they get paid. Worlds a tough place, parents need to start doing their jobs and raising young men and women rather than raising stupid people.

7. If they get payed they should be legally bound to a school once they commit, IMO. If you want to be an adult then you're treated as an adult and have to consider your decisions before making them and then live with them. To me that seems fair.

8. IMO this is a societal problem... Our priorities are misplaced and parents suck.

 

[NLeininger]

1. Yes we do punish people who do things well and are successful... See taxes. Piling more responsibility on the shoulders of the successful is what America does. 2. The failure begins WAY before college. If a kid isn't reading at a 4th grade level thaaaaat means their failure began in 3rd grade.

3. How do you pay kids? Do you pay them ALL equally? Performance based? Stars get more? I don't have an answer, just curious as to your theoretical "plan." Do you ONLY pay college football players? Does it happen at all schools or just a few? What's the cap? Cause a school like UT can pay a kid whatever they want while Texas Tech can not. Seems it would greatly tip the scales across the landscape. Thoughts?

4. It seems fair not to give scholarships to student athletes if you are going to pay them like they are employees... Though, solely academic, students may not have the rigorous schedules of student athletes I am sure they would love a monetarily free education, especially since they actually want the education part and will use it.

5. Our society has failed kids and it's getting no better. Paying them is not a fix, at all. I fail to see what there is to gain as a whole here unless you are paying each player a significant salary to play. Like most I think a stipend is a good thing.

6. College has turned into big business. College is also what you make it. You can scam a degree or you can learn something and build a future. Colleges don't care either way as long as they get paid. Worlds a tough place, parents need to start doing their jobs and raising young men and women rather than raising stupid people.

7. If they get payed they should be legally bound to a school once they commit, IMO. If you want to be an adult then you're treated as an adult and have to consider your decisions before making them and then live with them. To me that seems fair.

8. IMO this is a societal problem... Our priorities are misplaced and parents suck.

Yep. Sad that a quality education is so lightly regarded that paying amateur athletes is the answer as opposed to driving home the point that a college degree opens way more doors for them than 50 or so games do. Seems that maybe these athletes should be majoring in something other than Child Studies such that their 4-5 year experience at college prepares them better or life after athletics.

 

[Bevostuntdouble]

Yep. Sad that a quality education is so lightly regarded that paying amateur athletes is the answer as opposed to driving home the point that a college degree opens way more doors for them than 50 or so games do. Seems that maybe these athletes should be majoring in something other than Child Studies such that their 4-5 year experience at college prepares them better or life after athletics.

Exactly. The money they would get paid pales in comparison to what they COULD earn if they used their, monetarily, free education properly. But if you throw it at the feet of the colleges I say teach them well but make them earn their degrees. If they don't make the grades they don't get "help." They just get their paycheck and get to leave the school diploma-less. How much better off are they then? Proving that paying kids isn't gonna solve anything...

 

[doc longhorn]

Sure Texas can, what about a lot of other colleges where athletics is in the red. Texas is one of 10 or so universities that can afford it.

Well, the other universities are also reaping the benefits of college football as well. And, for sure, their costs of running a football program are no where like ours.. It's all relative and simple economics. If you spend more than you make, you either raise the price of admission, reduce your costs or both.

Texas is not responsible for the economics of other universities.

 

[Coleman Feeley]

It is, without a doubt, a touchy subject. I played college football at a school that had a WAY lower budget than The University of Texas, and honestly, we all did fine. The off campus check isn't much but if you're responsible (like SO many college students are) and budget, you do fine. In the long run, there really aren't many student athletes, especially on a full scholarship, that say it wasn't worth the struggle to come out of college DEBT FREE. However, players images and likeness is where the debate starts to get real interesting....

 

[Juan]

The Northwestern athletes won their NLRB bid for a CAPA union.

NU hasnt issued a statement yet, but an appeal is likely.

http://tracking.si.com/2014/03/26/northwestern-nlrb-employees-capa-college-football-ncaaf/

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Northwestern athletes win in NLRB bid for CAPA union. NU says statement coming soon, but they'll likely appeal.</p>— Allie Grasgreen (@alliegrasgreen) <a href="

https://twitter.com/alliegrasgreen/statuses/448892973137555456">March 26, 2014</a></blockquote><script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Juan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>The NLRB office in Chicago says Northwestern football players are employees. They were 1-7 in the Big Ten. So should they be fired?</p>— Jim Gardner (@Jim_Gardner) <a href="

https://twitter.com/Jim_Gardner/statuses/448931308228841472">March 26, 2014</a></blockquote><script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Juan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Houston attorney on Northwestern/unions: "This is a landmark decision ... will be difficult to overturn on appeal."</p>— Reid Laymance (@ReidLaymance) <a href="

https://twitter.com/ReidLaymance/statuses/448933414368849920">March 26, 2014</a></blockquote><script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[java]

I didn't read all of the comments, but have felt that room, board, tuition, books, + stipend was coming for a long time. Everyone's definition of small stipend is different, but mine is along the lines of the above plus $800 to $1000 per month. That should cover a cell phone bill, reasonable gas, eating out on weekends when cafeteria is closed, a few clothes when needed, and a movie on occasion, with a little left over.

I realize that not all programs can do that, but when the game breaks into super-conferences or whatever it's called, the schools included will be able to afford it, if they have smart managers. If they don't have smart money managers, then screw them, not the athletes.

This scenario is something that I've been considering for at least 15 years. It seems fair, for the amount of work the athletes put in and for the revenue they generate. The strong will survive, and the weak will go under. For every weak institution that goes down, another will be waiting to take that spot.

Your thoughts, as usual, are welcome.

 

[Randolph Duke]

I didn't read all of the comments, but have felt that room, board, tuition, books, + stipend was coming for a long time. Everyone's definition of small stipend is different, but mine is along the lines of the above plus $800 to $1000 per month. That should cover a cell phone bill, reasonable gas, eating out on weekends when cafeteria is closed, a few clothes when needed, and a movie on occasion, with a little left over.
I realize that not all programs can do that, but when the game breaks into super-conferences or whatever it's called, the schools included will be able to afford it, if they have smart managers. If they don't have smart money managers, then screw them, not the athletes.

This scenario is something that I've been considering for at least 15 years. It seems fair, for the amount of work the athletes put in and for the revenue they generate. The strong will survive, and the weak will go under. For every weak institution that goes down, another will be waiting to take that spot.

Your thoughts, as usual, are welcome.

There are a lot of ramifications from this ruling. Should it be upheld on appeal, boosters should be able to "employ" athletes without limitations on compensation for personal appearances and universities would be free to have players on the team who aren't students. Also, universities would be free to pay players whatever they want as trying to limit compensation would be met with antitrust lawsuits. The NCAA rules on transfers would also fall to antitrust law. When pro players get cut by their pro team, they will be free to come back and play college ball.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Frankly, I can't believe Northwestern student-athletes pushed for unionization in the first place.

A full-tuition scholarship at NU is worth $60k per year??? What a bunch of greedy bastards! Now I understand the "NCAA is a hypocritical entity" argument, but c'mon.

*smh* At times, I feel like I'm crazy on a ship of fools...

 

[Juan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>To tell me the football player at <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23USC&src=hash">#USC</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Bama&src=hash">#Bama</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Texas&src=hash">#Texas</a> is getting screwed I smh. I've seen it first hand, life is outstanding</p>— John Middlekauff (@JohnMiddlekauff) <a href="

https://twitter.com/JohnMiddlekauff/statuses/449156114148384768">March 27, 2014</a></blockquote><script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>