HS pitcher in Washington throws 194 pitches in 15-inning shutout bid

[joeywa]

What are y'all's thoughts about this?

Rochester pitcher who threw 194 pitches in game goes national, and sparks intriguing debate
Posted on May 15, 2014by Tim Martinez

In this photo taken on Tuesday, May 13, 2014,Rochester High School head baseball coach Jerry Striegel removes starting pitcher Dylan Fosnacht from the mound after Fosnacht pitched a shutout into the 15th inning of a District IV 1A baseball tournament first-round game at Rochester High School in Rochester, Wash. Fosnacht threw 194 pitches as he took a shutout into the 15th inning. His team beat La Center 1-0 in 17 innings. (AP Photo/The Chronicle, Pete Caster)

Dylan Fosnacht is now national news.

The Rochester pitcher who threw 194 pitches while taking a shutout into the 15th inning Tuesday in a district playoff game against La Center. The Warriors would eventually win that game 1-0 in 17 innings and later advanced to the district title game Saturday against Woodland.

Fosnacht’s story was a topic of discussion on ESPN’s “SportsCenter” and the MLB Network’s “The Rundown” and “Intentional Talk.”

The four commentators on MLB’s Rundown were in agreement that it was not a good idea to let a high school pitcher throw almost 200 pitches in one game.

However, Chris Rose and Al Leiter had a different take on “Intentional Talk.”

Both Rose and Leiter said the game was a once-in-a-lifetime experience for Fosnacht. And since the high school senior is not a big league prospect and doesn’t even think he’ll continue to play baseball in college, then the benefits of the experience outweighed any potential risk.

Fosnacht responded to some of the critics on Twitter, saying: “Some people think it’s awesome. Some people think it’s ridiculous. I personally loved every minute of it, and it’s a great memory to have.”

Tampa Bay Rays pitcher David Price even tweeted at Fosnacht.



To which Fosnacht replied:



For the record, the WIAA rulebook doesn’t say anything on how many pitches or innings a pitcher can throw in a game. It only stipulates that if a pitcher throws four or more innings in a game, he can’t pitch in another game until two days have elapsed.

So if Fosnacht had pitched five innings in the game against La Center, by rule, he could not have pitched in Rochester’s semifinal game against Elma played later that same day.

But he could pitch the equivalent of two high school games because all of those innings occurred in the same game.

Something seems out of whack there.

La Center’s Trevor Roberson threw about 130 pitches over 12 innings of the same game. La Center coach Rob Williamson said Roberson felt strong after 12 innings, but Williamson decided that enough was enough.

Rochester coach Jerry Streigel had a different thought with his pitcher.

“We talked to him every inning, and he said he felt comfortable, he felt good, and he’s a little competitor,” Streigel told the Centralia Chronicle. “He didn’t want to come out of the ballgame. He wasn’t very pleased when I took him out in the 15th.”

So, what if Streigel hadn’t taken Fosnacht out in the 15th? What if he had allowed his pitcher to continue to pitch into the 16th or 17th innings?

How much is too much?

If you aren’t upset about a kid throwing 194 pitches, what would upset you? 200 pitches? 220? 250?

Fosnacht said afterward that he felt no ill effects from his long pitching outing and doesn’t quite understand what all the hubbub is about.

“People just don’t understand,” Fosnacht tweeted. “I’m not (an) ace pitcher. I’m (an) infielder who pitches every now and then. Not a prospect ruining (their) career.”

But wouldn’t the fact that he pitches “every now and then” put him in greater risk of injury given the number of pitches he threw?

I’m not so much concerned about ruining his pro pitching career. That’s a 1-in-a-million shot. I’m more concerned about not getting a kid hurt.

And asking a kid if he feels good or not is not the best barometer. Any high school athlete feels a little bit invincible, especially in a big game.

Heck, I can remember playing a high school basketball game on a severely sprained knee because I figured if I could walk, I could play. Looking back, it probably wasn’t the smartest decision I’ve ever made, even though I came away with no lasting ill effects.

But just because you ran across the interstate without being run over doesn’t make it a good idea.

And that’s why you have coaches … to make decisions that are in the best interest of the athlete, even if the athlete doesn’t agree.

But if coaches are going to struggle with this, maybe it’s something the WIAA needs to legislate. It’s certainly worth a discussion.

We will agree with Fosnacht on one point. It was a pretty cool story, as best stated by two of the central characters via Twitter.

Roberson of La Center: “We had a pretty good duel the other day, bro!”

Fosnacht: “Yeah we did! You pitched a hell of a game and wouldn’t stop battling me at the plate. LOL.”

Link to story:

 

[Juan]

I think that the parents need to intervene

 

[Matt Cotcher]

Frankly, it's irresponsible & pathetic, IMO.

 

[joeywa]

Frankly, it's irresponsible & pathetic, IMO.

Matt,

Does the fact that the kid is normally an IF, not one of their regular Ps, and has no plans to play college ball make a difference in your assessment? Just curious.

 

[streettopeschel]

you know, i'm not sure. when i saw the headline i said 'wtf??', but then i read the kid's comments (i'm not an ace...i'm an infielder etc), he's not likely to play beyond HS and it seemed like he was enjoying the moment and now he has his 15-minutes of fame.

i'm sure someone has more info on arm injuries and pitch counts than i do, but pitch counts and the disappearance of the complete game in MLB have been in vogue for 20+ years now. And yet, how many guys just this season have been lost to Tommy John? Was it worse back in the day when pitchers routinely completed many or most of their starts and threw 250-300 innings ?

 

[Johnstark23]

In 2000 we were playing Mansfield in the regional semifinal. We were playing games 1 and 2 in Abilene and then if necessary game three in Mansfield. Mansfield had three studs that year one of them went on and pitched at Baylor and the other two I can't remember. We won game 1 and then went on to play game 2. Our game 2 guy has been our stud through the playoffs. We went 11 in the nightcap. Our starter went all 11 threw 154 pitches and we got the win. We played duncanville and Justin Simmons the next Tuesday. Our HC brings that guy back in the seventh to try to close (against the advice of the pitching coach ) and he has no life on his anything and his velocity which was 88-91 in the 11th four days before was 81-2 that night. He didn't really bounce back until midway through summer ball. I also know that (cause he told me) that if I or the HC would have come to get him he was going to punch us in the face. So it's a very difficult situation.

 

[Matt Cotcher]

Matt,

Does the fact that the kid is normally an IF, not one of their regular Ps, and has no plans to play college ball make a difference in your assessment? Just curious.

That young man's arm is still growing and developing. Regardless of if he normally plays IF, I don't see any reason for him to put his arm, elbow, shoulder through that kind of stress.

Did it ruin a baseball career by doing what they did? No.

Did they increase the probability of that kid hurting his arm in the future? IMO, absolutely.

Another thing for me is that baseball is a team game. That coach sent an unintended message to the rest of the team when he left him in to pitch that long. In that sense, he also did the pitcher a disservice by not teaching him to trust his teammates.

 

[joeywa]

That young man's arm is still growing and developing. Regardless of if he normally plays IF, I don't see any reason for him to put his arm, elbow, shoulder through that kind of stress.

Did it ruin a baseball career by doing what they did? No.

Did they increase the probability of that kid hurting his arm in the future? IMO, absolutely.

Another thing for me is that baseball is a team game. That coach sent an unintended message to the rest of the team when he left him in to pitch that long. In that sense, he also did the pitcher a disservice by not teaching him to trust his teammates.

Valid points, but I also see what JohnStark said above. The kid was out there because he was obviously being effective. The team got one game out of a kid that isn't part of the regular rotation, and without knowing what pitches he was throwing, I find it difficult to completely be on board with pulling him. If he's throwing a lot of pitches that are stressful on the elbow, you pull him earlier.

 

[DougNTexas]

Back in the day pitchers like Seaver , Gipson, Ford, Koufax, Carlton, Ryan, and Marichal etc.got stronger as the game went along. If you wanted to get them you usually needed to do it early in the game. By the 6th inning they would be rolling along all but untouchable. They all had long careers. A good bullpen is fine, but I personally think today some managers yank them to early.