J.B. TexasEx Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 [R]acist speech is constitutionally protected, just as is expression of other contemptible ideas; and universities may not discipline students based on their speech. That has been the unanimous view of courts that have considered campus speech codes and other campus speech restrictions Further proof that OU sucks! http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/415186/congratulations-university-oklahoma-your-outrage-you-just-violated-law-david-french?utm_campaign=trueAnthe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke C #11 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 primal defense 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.B. TexasEx Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Thanks, Duke! I've always wanted that certificate. I know the topic isn't as interesting as animal fornication, but perhaps you can go back to your "It's a Funny World" thread for that? FWIW, an Okie friend of mine sent me a copy of OU's "Student Code". Expulsion is Step 10. http://www.ou.edu/content/dam/studentlife/documents/AllCampusStudentCode.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streettopeschel Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Bottom line, a couple of ou frat d-bags got tossed for dropping n-bombs and getting caught. Racist, yeah. Stupid, hell yeah. I'll sleep fine tonight. bcherry168 and Davharjac 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.B. TexasEx Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Bottom line, a couple of ou frat d-bags got tossed for dropping n-bombs and getting caught. Racist, yeah. Stupid, hell yeah. I'll sleep fine tonight. I'll sleep like a baby, too, but it's gonna be interesting and fun to see how this plays out if the frat boys in question have the temerity and gumption to challenge Boren's decision. Oh, and the longer this drags out, the worse it gets for OU. Breaks my heart... doc longhorn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streettopeschel Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I'll sleep like a baby, too, but it's gonna be interesting and fun to see how this plays out if the frat boys in question have the temerity and gumption to challenge Boren's decision. Oh, and the longer this drags out, the worse it gets for OU. Breaks my heart... it ain't the frat boys gumption in question. It's daddy's checkbook and whether he wants to share it with a lawyer to fight a highly publicized racially charged case to keep his kid in school where he'd be a pariah. I'll wager daddy says no unless he's a lawyer of course. Then who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.B. TexasEx Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 it ain't the frat boys gumption in question. It's daddy's checkbook and whether he wants to share it with a lawyer to fight a highly publicized racially charged case to keep his kid in school where he'd be a pariah. I'll wager daddy says no unless he's a lawyer of course. Then who knows. Probably not, but maybe an unscrupulous, publicity-seeking lawyer will take on the case pro bono? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streettopeschel Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Probably not, but maybe an unscrupulous, publicity-seeking lawyer will take on the case pro bono? where would anybody find an unscrupulous publicity-seeking lawyer? tejasrulz, Texas2K and Godz40acres 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agmaniacmike Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I'm not a constitutional expert by any means, but wouldn't hate speech be considered incitement to violence? Schools use criteria to accept kids into their programs, couldn't they say that these students' actions have violated the criteria that allowed them the opportunity to attend the university and therefore make them ineligible to attend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirhornsalot Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I'm not a constitutional expert by any means, but wouldn't hate speech be considered incitement to violence? Schools use criteria to accept kids into their programs, couldn't they say that these students' actions have violated the criteria that allowed them the opportunity to attend the university and therefore make them ineligible to attend? Only IF it actually incited violence. But the larger and more prominent obstacle for you there is the free speech amendment. Ugly words are not against the law. OU does have a code of conduct. Expulsion is way down at step #10 in that process but was step #1 in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillohorn Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 OU sucks in so many ways. bcherry168 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
java Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Last night it they identified 2 of the students, by name, and one is from Dallas. I didn't listen closely enough to discover if Dad commented. Just fyi. Ugly incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHorn Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 OU sucks in so many ways. Indeed it does I have mixed feelings about this. The incident itself is despicable. However the backlash is the expected overreaction from any and everyone. The biggest problem I see is if these students are given due process or not by the university. I hate it in America now when we tend to convict and punish out of reflex in the media instead of due process. Godz40acres and bcherry168 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.B. TexasEx Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Indeed it does I have mixed feelings about this. The incident itself is despicable. However the backlash is the expected overreaction from any and everyone. The biggest problem I see is if these students are given due process or not by the university. I hate it in America now when we tend to convict and punish out of reflex in the media instead of due process. There's a lot of buzz in the DFW papers about the case this morning. The two SAEs who were leading the song were intoxicated, freshmen pledges from Jesuit Prep and Highland Park, respectively. Apparently, they were taught this song by SAE higher ups and it's not an OU thing - it's a national chapter deal. My question is this, Why are two freshmen SAE pledges leading the party bus in a cheer? Unless, of course, they were ordered to do so by superiors. I'm not Greek, but it's my understanding that pledges keep a low profile unless a ranking member sponsors them or orders them to do something. It will be interesting to see if these kids and their families challenge Boren and OU in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc longhorn Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I'm not a constitutional expert by any means, but wouldn't hate speech be considered incitement to violence? Schools use criteria to accept kids into their programs, couldn't they say that these students' actions have violated the criteria that allowed them the opportunity to attend the university and therefore make them ineligible to attend? Slippery slope, IMO. Would a minister, preaching hate towards the USA be considered a violence monger? Obama's long time minister comes to mind. Actually, I think the 1st amendment is pretty specific about laws being broken - or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc longhorn Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Ha, ha! I can see where you are coming from, but anytime OU or aggy is squirming under public scrutiny, the subject must stay alive. It is too delicious not to. I'm just hoping, because of this, that Boren is asked to explain why the frat was hammered and why the woman abusers were gladly given schollies. This hypocrisy investigation needs some serious traction. J.B. TexasEx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.B. TexasEx Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Leave it to USA Today to print an over-the-top, stereotypical cartoon to incite their readers. The lamestream media take for simpletons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotime73 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Leave it to USA Today to print an over-the-top, stereotypical cartoon to incite their readers. Lamestream media take for simpletons... what in the sweet hell did i just see here?????? REALLY??? media??? REALLY??? :angry: :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agmaniacmike Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Most definitely a slippery slope, but very little to deal with the law isn't. The execution and protection of the 1st Amendment via the courts has a laundry list of flawed or slanted judgments. When you have to have experts interpret what an amendment's application to each individual situation is due to scope, maybe we should start expanding it. It is sad that more often than not constitutionality is deemed more important than common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davharjac Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 As a 20 something African American male, I haven't had to deal with too many people threatening to hang me from trees(none actually), of course that could be because I am a pretty physically intimidating guy. I have HEARD family members talk about growing up hearing this kind of thing. It was pretty sobering to watch a video of a chant that was so hateful in nature, being sung with such glee. It was a joyous moment for those guys, and it appeared to be a moment that was dripping in tradition. I don't know if it was within the legal rights of the OU president to kick those kids out of school...and honestly I don't care. I have seen people defend these guys siting freedom of speech..that's all well and good, but how many freedoms did Americans give up for National Security, I asked that because it appears we as American give up freedoms all the time.... when we feel there is a threat. While singing of the joys of hanging blacks vs the disgrace of a desegregated frat by some douchey frat guys does not represent some grave national threat, it does make me wonder. How many other frats at schools across the country (The University of Texas) have "traditions" like these, and how many of these frats members go on to work in positions were they are superiors and/or co workers of the minorities they sang gleefully about harming...even if they would never actually raise their hand against anyone..it's hard for me to believe that those feelings, those gleeful moments spent singing about how essentially blacks aren't "good enough" simply vanish after graduation... So yeah OU sucks, but I will give the president of Okalahoma University a big Boomer Sooner for this one... PS OU still sucks.. doc longhorn, shotime73, SFlonghorngirl and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotty22 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 we better not get too comfortable. i bet this isn't isolated to the OU campus. we may see videos and such from UT as well. there's prejudice all over this country. OU just got caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc longhorn Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 As a 20 something African American male, I haven't had to deal with too many people threatening to hang me from trees(none actually), of course that could be because I am a pretty physically intimidating guy. I have HEARD family members talk about growing up hearing this kind of thing. It was pretty sobering to watch a video of a chant that was so hateful in nature, being sung with such glee. It was a joyous moment for those guys, and it appeared to be a moment that was dripping in tradition. I don't know if it was within the legal rights of the OU president to kick those kids out of school...and honestly I don't care. I have seen people defend these guys siting freedom of speech..that's all well and good, but how many freedoms did Americans give up for National Security, I asked that because it appears we as American give up freedoms all the time.... when we feel there is a threat. While singing of the joys of hanging blacks vs the disgrace of a desegregated frat by some douchey frat guys does not represent some grave national threat, it does make me wonder. How many other frats at schools across the country (The University of Texas) have "traditions" like these, and how many of these frats members go on to work in positions were they are superiors and/or co workers of the minorities they sang gleefully about harming...even if they would never actually raise their hand against anyone..it's hard for me to believe that those feelings, those gleeful moments spent singing about how essentially blacks aren't "good enough" simply vanish after graduation... So yeah OU sucks, but I will give the president of Okalahoma University a big Boomer Sooner for this one... PS OU still sucks.. Well said. My position is that the action taken towards the racists was appropriate. However, the vitriolic statement by the university president was a little over the line and inappropriate for such an esteemed position. A bit more gravitas was warranted in my opinion. The rest of my position deems the action inexcusably hypocritical. Hypocritical in light of the fact that star football players, who beat women, were actually rewarded with full scholarships instead of being run out of Norman on a rail. CCausey11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agmaniacmike Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 It is pretty clear that this SAE bit is not just relegated to OU. The frat was established in Alabama before the Civil War. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/09/1369591/-A-deeper-examination-of-the-sheer-joy-of-Oklahoma-students-chanting-about-hanging-niggers-from-trees This article cites that there were reports of this behavior on the Texas campus a month before the OU campus. http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/2015/03/university_of_texas_frat_under_scrutiny_for_racist_and_homophobic_rules.html This site posts about the notorious"FIJI" chapters ridiculous rules for its members. At A&M, there have been issue with FIJI and others. Instances of goat shooting, super wedgies that caused testicle removal, binge drinking resulting in the death of a pledge, parties with racist themes, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcherry168 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I wish I could figure out how to post a URL. There is an African American professor at OU that has posted a blog piece that is very good. Her name is Maria Dixon Hall, and the post is entitled "A Teachable Moment: How OU Failed Transformation 101." Google it if you wish. She makes some excellent points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.B. TexasEx Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I wish I could figure out how to post a URL. There is an African American professor at OU that has posted a blog piece that is very good. Her name is Maria Dixon Hall, and the post is entitled "A Teachable Moment: How OU Failed Transformation 101." Google it if you wish. She makes some excellent points. Good call. Ms. Hall makes some interesting points and has a very Christian, forgiving POV. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mariadixonhall/2015/03/a-teachable-moment-how-ou-failed-transformation-101/ Texas Homer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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