Swoopes improving?

[DMAC]

I know I will probably get flamed for bashing Swoopes.  Apparently he is the future of this longhorn program to most on this forum.  Hes improving, hes inexperienced, it takes time to mature, blah blah blah blah. 

 

 

Swoopes  vs JT Barrett

 

 

Barrett as a first year starter.  Barrett leads his team and is in talks about Heisman, while everyone here talks about "the potential" of Swoopes and how Watson will make this kid the next "TEDDY"!  LOL

 

 

 

“For being a redshirt freshman and taking over the role at this university, (leading) Buckeye Nation, he’s done an incredible job,†Elflein said. “Before every game, he gives a pregame speech. (They’re) incredible. You don’t hear anything like that from anybody else.

“You can tell it’s coming from deep within and he really means it. It gives everybody a sense that this guy has our back and he’s going to lead us. He’s one of the best leaders I’ve been around.â€

 

 

QB = Leader = Swoopes?

[Brasky]

Swoopes is not the answer moving forward. But his improvement is nothing short of incredible and both he and the staff deserve immense credit. I was so thoroughly unimpressed with him in his limited duty last year that it is incredible to me that he is a semi polished QB. if this staff need these strides with him imagine what they would do with guys who had a lot more coaching prior to joining the college ranks

[GBT]

I don't candy-coat anything. PC is not my style......Swoopes has looked good against the likes of Tech, Kansas, ISU, OSU, and WVU. I will give him that. That is as far as it goes. Barrett's career is parallel to Swoopes. Both basically RS Freshmen with no experience, taking over early for an injured QB. The difference is Barrett is mentioned in Heisman talks,leading his team to possibly the play offs; while Swoopes still struggles (costing his team a win vs Baylor with horrible play....could say he cost us the OU game with the terrible pick 6 ) and talks are of will he hold off RS Freshmen and true Freshmen for next season. Just another in a long line of Mack Brown's bone-head moves. Swoopes may develop into a serviceable QB, but Texas must have a QUALITY QB with the IT factor if they expect to beat the likes of Baylor, OU, TCU, and KSU all in the same year. Swoopes ain't that guy, or he would have produced far more results than he has thus far. When Applewhite, Vince, Colt, even Johnny Football talked; you could hear confidence and "winner" exude from them. You could see it in their eyes. Swoopes doesn't display that.....and that can't be coached into a kid. If Swoopes is our QB next year, with the schedule we have, we can expect a 7-5 or 8-4 record at best with a 3rd or 4th place Big 12 finish. The kid is not a "winner". He is more of a Romo. One minute he looks great the next he is fumbling or throwing a WTF pick. He is a guy with maybe a world of potential, but just not going to happen for whatever reason. Nobody's fault, just the way some athletes are.

[GBT]

Swoopes is not the answer moving forward. But his improvement is nothing short of incredible and both he and the staff deserve immense credit. I was so thoroughly unimpressed with him in his limited duty last year that it is incredible to me that he is a semi polished QB. if this staff need these strides with him imagine what they would do with guys who had a lot more coaching prior to joining the college ranks

I agree 100%

[DMAC]

Swoopes may develop into a serviceable QB, but Texas must have a QUALITY QB with the IT factor if they expect to beat the likes of Baylor, OU, TCU, and KSU all in the same year. Swoopes ain't that guy, or he would have produced far more results than he has thus far. When Applewhite, Vince, Colt, even Johnny Football talked; you could hear confidence and "winner" exude from them. You could see it in their eyes. Swoopes doesn't display that.....and that can't be coached into a kid.

 

Agree.  I just dont see him being a leader.  He doesn't seem to have the fire in him, hes always subdued and seems timid.  For a kid in H.S that "couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat" he has improved under Watson.  For this team to get to the next level we need a confident leader at QB

[Duke C #11]

Y'all just don't remember what Vince Young looked like when he started playing for UT, do you?

[java]

Short memories are contagious.

[DMAC]

Y'all just don't remember what Vince Young looked like when he started playing for UT, do you?

 

While that is true can you honestly say that Swoopes will bring back the VY days?  I dont think so.

 

Can you remember what Colt and James Brown look like in their first season?  Brown was legendary in that OU game coming off the bench to come back win that game.

 

While swoopes has improved it still begs the question as where this team would be had we taken Barrett instead of Swoopes.  Barrett under Watson would have this team with atleast 2 more wins IMO

[Randolph Duke]

The metric shouldn't be "how is he performing." The metric should be "how is he performing relative to what he is being told to do or how he is being told to to do certain things."

 

Without hearing from Watson how he is developing Swoopes or possibly hearing from Bridgewater how Swoopes' development compares with how Watson developed Teddy, it is difficult to judge Swoopes as a QB. If he is able to grasp new concepts and execute them, I'm OK with him more than I would be if he had a higher skill level today but couldn't grasp new concepts over time. I'd much rather have a raw QB who can be developed than one with skills but has a low ceiling. I want to see how Swoopes performs in the bowl game. With 15 practices to concentrate on specific plays designed to exploit specific opportunities he should show just how well he can be coached up.

[DMAC]

I'd much rather have a raw QB who can be developed than one with skills but has a low ceiling.

 

You make some valid points.  What exactly sets the standard for this so called potential?  Break it down.  

 

1. Athletic - People seem in awe of Swoopes so called athletic ability?  Since when does big = athletic?  He looks lethargic and awkward running the ball or trying to avoid a sack.  Hes a big guy but a good runner he is not. DL Malcolm Brown is bigger and appears to be more athletic than Swoopes is.
2. Decision Making - This could improve as he grows.  But taking sacks or not throwing the ball away while trying avoid a sack seems like every other game.  I thought he did better in the OSU game.
3. Leadership - I have yet to see any signs of this.  In interviews you can see a big difference between him and the likes of others great QB's.  He so quiet and soft spoken.  Dont say its a youth thing.  James Brown was a RS frosh when he was leading the team.  Barrettt gives pregame speeches.  Swoopes is not a leader and I don't see him becoming one.  I know VY was a great leader in his Soph and Junior year obviously.  I dont remember exactly how he commanded the offense his first year.  VY first year stats were comparable to Swoopes other than his 7.4 yard per carry

 

Other than a big arm I don't see this so called "potential" everyone seems to think Swoopes has.  He is already coached up and still average to decent at best.

[HornEsch]

Honestly I don't think anyone can truly say if he is the answer or not based on this year alone. Hard to judge anyone that has had to be thrown into the fire before they were ready, not to mention behind a rag tag OL for much of the season, a non-existent running game for much of the season, and a new coaching staff trying to find their way. He has shown some promise and yes some really woeful spans as well.
 
Trying to compare x QB to y QB never really tells an accurate story. Some QBs are "ready" early and some take more time before the get there. Some don't get there until the NFL if you really want to go there. Not to mention when you bring up Colt and his first season when he was surrounded by a championship team, you should bring up Colt's second season which is almost identical to Swoope's this season and it was Colt's second full season. Comparing first year QBs is rarely accurate because the ecosystem around them is apples and oranges. You have completely diiferent scenarios and again some QB's blossom early and some late and some never.
 
What Swoopes does have is an NFL arm. He can make some throws that are just perfect.
 
What Swoopes does not have is consistency. He can look like a first round draft pick for a span and then look like he doesn't belong the next.
 
What does any of that really mean? Not much at this point. His grade is really incomplete. He had no business being thrust into the starting line up this year. However he has shown promise and the ability to play at this level, just not consistently.
 
IF he can be consistent he can be the answer and a really good one at that.
 
Why is there hope? A QB can learn to be consistent, through experience and practice. A QB can't just all of the sudden get an NFL arm.
 
The best thing is that there will be competition this Spring and even during the bowl practice. You will have Heard and Gentry getting to show what they can do and there is even talk about getting a JUCO QB as well. This staff wants to have options and competition at the position, which is a refreshing change.
 
That's just my opinion. I can see arguments from both side of the fence, but to me it is just an incomplete grade. Below are some interesting stats to consider just for the sake of this argument.
 
Stats Source (OrangeBloods) All numbers are based on first 10 games of the season.

Vince (RS/Fr): Completed 98/164 (59.8 %) passes for 1,253 yds, 11 TDs and 7 INTs; 118 rushes for 776 yds / 5 TDs.
Vince (RS/So): Completed 120/204 (58.8 %) passes for 1,538 yds, 11 TDs and 10 INTs; 127 rushes for 794 yds / 9 TDs.

Colt (RS/Fr): Completed 170/246(69.1 %) passes for 2,051yds, 27 TDs and 4 INTs; 62 rushes for 160 yds / 1 TDs.
Colt (RS/So): Completed 217/331(65.6 %) passes for 2,632 yds, 16 TDs and 16 INTs; 78 rushes for 333yds / 1 TDs.

Swoopes: Completed 191/325(58.8 %) passes for 2,152 yds, 12 TDs and 6 INTs; 88 rushes for 233yds / 3 TDs.

 

Outside of the Colt's amazing freshman year, which is more of an outlier, there is nothing that screams the Swoopes was much worse that two of our greatest players early on. No, I am not saying Swoopes is in their class at all. Just trying to point out that Swoopes has not been as bad as he seems. He has been inconcistent. Both VY and Colt had some woeful games early on. Hell Colt may have had his worse game of all time his last season here against Nebraska where we managed to pull it out with a little luck.

 

Obviously stats do not tell the whole story, but they do help set the narrative.

[DMAC]

I guess we shall see.  Good write up Esch 

 

 

[Randolph Duke]

If Swoopes gets beaten out for the starting position next fall, so be it. At the very least, in Swoopes Texas has a decent backup, which is something the team hasn't had since I can remember. As things stand, he isn't what I want in a starter, but moving forward regardless of whether he is the starter or not he is an important piece of building a competitive program.

[Shevis Irons]

One of the best arguments I've seen on this board Esch!

[bcherry168]

I have mixed emotions about the young man. He has good physical attributes, and could be a really good quarterback at some point. I think the real problems he has now is in his head. I don't know him well enough to say for certain, but it appears to me that he does not yet have the confidence or the experience to make quick reads and quick decisions. He seems like he doesn't really have a thorough understanding of any of the nuances involved. I suspect it is because he went to a small school and was such a good athlete that he just didn't have to learn those things. So what we see is a learning process, and that takes time.

 

Whether he is the answer going forward will depend upon him and the other quarterbacks on the roster. What we need for him to do now is play within his capabilities and avoid turnovers. The experience thing will take care of itself.

 

I think he is due a lot of credit, along with the coaching staff, for his having come as far as he has this year. I am pulling for him.

[Matt Cotcher]

Couple of flaws inherent in making the Swoopes v Barrett comparison:

 

1. They are not the same style quarterback. Swoopes has 4 inches in height and 30 lbs on him that Barrett doesn't carry. Swoopes is closer to a pocket passer than he is a dual threat, regardless of how Rivals rated him.

 

2. Barrett has had 2 years under Urban Meyer and Tom Herman. That's a significant bonus.

 

3. Swoopes played at Whitewright (2A). Barrett played at WF Rider (5A). Especially at QB (preparation, talent level, etc), that's a significant difference.

 

4. Ohio State is still playing with the same OL that started the season. They haven't suffered any injuries - including backups.

 

 

All that isn't to say that Tyrone Swoopes is the long-term answer for Texas at quarterback. I just don't think Swoopes v Barrett is apples to apples.

[BruiseLee]

Great points Matt, especially points #2 and #4. Barrett is playing with teammates who are a part of a ranked team plus Barrett has had time to learn the offense. Swoopes on the other hand is learning a new offense along with his teammates.

[DMAC]

Couple of flaws inherent in making the Swoopes v Barrett comparison:

 

1. They are not the same style quarterback. Swoopes has 4 inches in height and 30 lbs on him that Barrett doesn't carry. Swoopes is closer to a pocket passer than he is a dual threat, regardless of how Rivals rated him.

 

2. Barrett has had 2 years under Urban Meyer and Tom Herman. That's a significant bonus.

 

3. Swoopes played at Whitewright (2A). Barrett played at WF Rider (5A). Especially at QB (preparation, talent level, etc), that's a significant difference.

 

4. Ohio State is still playing with the same OL that started the season. They haven't suffered any injuries - including backups.

 

All very valid points.  Especially the extra year Barrett has under the current staff.  

 

With Ship,Harris, and Brown moving on, we are going to need someone to step up and be a leader on offense.

[dillohorn]

It's possible that Swoopes may not be the starter next season with the competition coming. May the best man win.

[HornSports Staff]

All very valid points.  Especially the extra year Barrett has under the current staff.  

 

With Ship,Harris, and Brown moving on, we are going to need someone to step up and be a leader on offense.

 

Leadership will be an interesting storyline in the Spring and into next year. With so many strong personalities in this year's Senior class, it wasn't the right time for Swoopes to step forward. This was never going to be "his" team.

 

Starting in Spring ball, how he/Heard/Gentry step forward into a leadership role will play a large role in determining next year's success, IMO.

[utisdabomb12]

I'm just glad Case McCoy isn't the QB. 

[bcherry168]

I'm just glad Case McCoy isn't the QB. 

 

I think we would have fared better early in the year with Case. Not too sure about now. Swoopes IS improving, even if he is not quite there yet.

[monarch]

hey gents, have you all noticed.. that no matter just how discombobulated our great young swoopes has been throughout this burgeoning season... he has not as of yet been injured!      swoopes there it is!

[bcherry168]

That is probably why he is not encouraged to run with the ball. Nobody behind him but walk ons. I note that Okie Lite burned a redshirt yesterday because they did not have enough depth We have been in that situation for 6 years. That is really bad decision making by the coaching staffs involved. Strong is moving to change that, but it will take a couple of years. At least next year we will have 2 before having to use a walk on.

[Duke C #11]

"While swoopes has improved it still begs the question as where this team would be had we taken Barrett instead of Swoopes.  Barrett under Watson would have this team with atleast 2 more wins IMO"

 

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