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Swoopes, again.


doc longhorn
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Yeah, I know - this subject has been hashed and re-hashed.

 

I'm in a heated argument with a couple of mods, at IT, and I thought I would bring it over here - sorta like pestilence. :)

 

But I find posters over here, though passionate, to be reasonable and logical thinkers.

 

The controversy is over what happens if Swoopes is injured and, more importantly, whether or not Swoopes has REALLY shown himself to be anything special.

 

Incredibly, one of the mods (whom I believe to be very football knowledgeable) has even stated "He is no Tom Brady".  Well, duh!  This same mod, along with another of his colleagues, had previously stated Swoopes would be better suited as a TE - and he still is not sure he shouldn't be one.  All this makes sense if you understand he is a Heard advocate, big time.

 

One of the posters came up with a comparison of Swoopes with Bridgewater that revealed some very interesting data that showed Swoopes actually doing a little better at the same point of development.

 

Everyone knows I prefer Swoopes to play in order for Heard to have his red shirt year.  But there are some that still think Swoopes is nothing more than a placeholder for Heard to ultimately take over.

I didn't agree and I based my opinion on what I saw him do last year.

I think, today, my opinion is justified as I think Swoopes potential is enormous and I have yet to see Heard play a single snap of college ball.  I discount HS as there is no doubt that Swoopes didn't come close to getting the quality of coaching that Heard did.  That and I'm not a proponent of transitive properties.

 

So, with Swoopes huge ceiling it doesn't appear to be a gimme that Heard will take over next year.  In fact, it appears that Heard may have to wait a couple of more years for his chance.

 

What say ya'll?

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Well...

 

I think you're correct in stating that at the moment, it's Swoopes' job to lose. I have little doubt that Swoopes will enter the 2015 Season as the Texas Longhorns starting Quarterback. And I'm a fan of Heard sitting and taking some time to really learn and develop before he leads the 40's Faithful. With that said, there is an emphasis on change this year that can not be ignored. I believe that Strong has faith in Swoopes and I think Watson feels the same. On the other hand, Strong has proven to be very "get with the business". If Swoopes was to blame for a variety of mistakes this season, I could see Strong opening the 2015 Offseason with a QB Competition. 

 

In short, Strong has principles and will lead by those principles. But he's not going to cut off a limb to satisfy the mind. Strong will do what he feels is best for the team, regardless of ability, tenure and/or star-power.

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I say you let the professionals make the call. In this case, it's Watson-Strong - who happen to know a great deal more about this than I do.

 

However, if left to just me to make a call, I'd stick with Swoopes because the kid is making improvement at a good pace. You have to follow that and see where it goes. All he's done is what's been asked of him. You can't ask for a lot more than that.

 

Watson-Strong said Heard wasn't ready. I take that to mean he's not fully grasped the system yet. No biggie as long as Swoopes doesn't get injured. If Swoopes gets injured, you have no choice but to take the shirt off Heard.

 

I can't believe it's even an issue. Swoopes showed great improvement over the previous game and did it against a ranked opponent. He began showing some leadership and fire in the belly. His was efficient with his passing and ran the ball when previously he may have thrown it away or taken a sack.

 

While Swoopes certainly passes the eyeball test for a TE, it's Swoopes who will determine what he actually is. Right now, he's showing me he's a QB and is leaving little doubt.

 

 

 

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Doc

 

I think you nailed it in your opening post. Swoopes is getting better and better and Heard needs to redshirt. That's all we need to know for this season. Next year will take care of itself.

 

If Swoopes does get hurt then unfortunately I think we have to play Heard and try to win as many games as possible. Just my opinion.

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I have a hard time believing that we've seen enough to say that he's the future or that he's not going to work. I feel that we've seen him on a leash and haven't been able to see his arm strength. I can see the comparisons to Bridgewater, but it's really far too early to make any statements.

 

If you'll remember, many Texas fans were clamoring for Vince to be moved to WR prior to 2004. QB takes time to develop.

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Yeah, I know - this subject has been hashed and re-hashed.

 

I'm in a heated argument with a couple of mods, at IT, and I thought I would bring it over here - sorta like pestilence. :)

 

But I find posters over here, though passionate, to be reasonable and logical thinkers.

 

Blinding glimpse of the obvious, much better looking too. . . . 

 

The controversy is over what happens if Swoopes is injured and, more importantly, whether or not Swoopes has REALLY shown himself to be anything special.

 

If Swoopes is injured, we have no choice but to play Heard, I seriously doubt Holtz could even drive the bus here.  OTOH, if you did not see the improvement of Swoopes from BYU to UCLA. . . . .you can forever stop posting about football because you don't know shit about the subject. .. . now how high the ceiling goes?   That is open for debate.

 

Incredibly, one of the mods (whom I believe to be very football knowledgeable) has even stated "He is no Tom Brady".  Well, duh!  This same mod, along with another of his colleagues, had previously stated Swoopes would be better suited as a TE - and he still is not sure he shouldn't be one.  All this makes sense if you understand he is a Heard advocate, big time.

 

One of the reasons I left IT was the lack of depth of football reporting on that site outside of Coach Culpepper's columns. . .

 

 

One of the posters came up with a comparison of Swoopes with Bridgewater that revealed some very interesting data that showed Swoopes actually doing a little better at the same point of development.

 

Everyone knows I prefer Swoopes to play in order for Heard to have his red shirt year.  But there are some that still think Swoopes is nothing more than a placeholder for Heard to ultimately take over.

 

Heard will get his shot starting next year barring injury. . ..we will see. . .

 

 

I didn't agree and I based my opinion on what I saw him do last year.

I think, today, my opinion is justified as I think Swoopes potential is enormous and I have yet to see Heard play a single snap of college ball.  I discount HS as there is no doubt that Swoopes didn't come close to getting the quality of coaching that Heard did.  That and I'm not a proponent of transitive properties.

 

So, with Swoopes huge ceiling it doesn't appear to be a gimme that Heard will take over next year.  In fact, it appears that Heard may have to wait a couple of more years for his chance.

 

Again, we will see .. . .

 

What say ya'll?

 

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I say you let the professionals make the call. In this case, it's Watson-Strong - who happen to know a great deal more about this than I do.

 

However, if left to just me to make a call, I'd stick with Swoopes because the kid is making improvement at a good pace. You have to follow that and see where it goes. All he's done is what's been asked of him. You can't ask for a lot more than that.

 

Watson-Strong said Heard wasn't ready. I take that to mean he's not fully grasped the system yet. No biggie as long as Swoopes doesn't get injured. If Swoopes gets injured, you have no choice but to take the shirt off Heard.

 

I can't believe it's even an issue. Swoopes showed great improvement over the previous game and did it against a ranked opponent. He began showing some leadership and fire in the belly. His was efficient with his passing and ran the ball when previously he may have thrown it away or taken a sack.

 

While Swoopes certainly passes the eyeball test for a TE, it's Swoopes who will determine what he actually is. Right now, he's showing me he's a QB and is leaving little doubt.

 

LOL!  Yeah, one of the IT posters said "Why make a problem out of a solution?".  I like this phrase a lot.

 

But you know the mod of whom I speak and he is intent on trying to fit that round peg into the square hole.  He simply won't cut Swoops ANY slack.  It's troubling because this guy has a great analytical football mind.  He just cannot handle being wrong, it seems. :)

 

Swoopes sample size is just too small to make any sweeping claims of greatness, but his potential is obvious.  And my question to the Heardboys is why is Swoopes potential less than Heards?

 

From what I have been reading from the practice reports, it appears that Heard's arm is actually a concern and his accuracy a REAL concern.  I think that would indicate that he is just not ready yet.

 

With the kid we have coming in next year, it appears that UT's QB woes are coming to an end - at least the depth part.

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you've asked two different questions.

What happen's if Swoopes is injured is the easy one. Heard plays. otherwise it's Lou's grandson or the frat guy, right ?

to the other...has he shown himself to be anything special ? after 2 games?  in what should be his RS FR year? with a MASH unit OLine? with his only real playmaker in the doghouse? No. but who would have?

What i DID see was a young guy with a strong arm who throws a nice ball who seems to have some upside.

 

What is it about texas that wants to move 6-5 black QBs to WR or TE? second time in recent memory. glad we didn't move the last one. let's give this one a little more time.

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you've asked two different questions.

 

What happen's if Swoopes is injured is the easy one. Heard plays. otherwise it's Lou's grandson or the frat guy, right ?

 

to the other...has he shown himself to be anything special ? after 2 games?  in what should be his RS FR year? with a MASH unit OLine? with his only real playmaker in the doghouse? No. but who would have?

 

What i DID see was a young guy with a strong arm who throws a nice ball who seems to have some upside.

 

What is it about texas that wants to move 6-5 black QBs to WR or TE? second time in recent memory. glad we didn't move the last one. let's give this one a little more time.

 

My points, exactly.  My God, considering he has mediocre receivers and an OL equivalent to Midland high school, I think he has been superb.

The mod that disses him said "But he is only averaging 5.7 yds. per throw and that is dismal".  Can you believe it?  Considering he only has had about 3 seconds to get the throw off and NO time to throw the vertical 20 yd. passes, I would call 5.7 yds. huge (it is also better than Bridgewater's who averaged 5.6).  Also, it has to be considered that receivers had awful YAC's as well.

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I can't weigh in on this one because I can't grasp the idea of cheering for one player over a team/school. The idea that somebody would be a big enough fan of Jerrod Heard so as to suggest that he should be starting right now? That doesn't compute...and that's being polite.

 

Bevo Blake is correct - the coaches are focused on winning and will play the players that give them the best chance to do so. It's obvious that Tyrone Swoopes is that player at this moment. 2 games is a very small sample size, but projecting him as that guy in 10 months would be a logical thought.

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I can't weigh in on this one because I can't grasp the idea of cheering for one player over a team/school. The idea that somebody would be a big enough fan of Jerrod Heard so as to suggest that he should be starting right now? That doesn't compute...and that's being polite.

 

Bevo Blake is correct - the coaches are focused on winning and will play the players that give them the best chance to do so. It's obvious that Tyrone Swoopes is that player at this moment. 2 games is a very small sample size, but projecting him as that guy in 10 months would be a logical thought.

 

 

I was one of those who was talking Heard up a great deal before the season. I still believe we have the future with him.

 

However, I want whatever is best for my Horns and right now that seems obvious to be Swoopes.

 

So I cheer them both on and hope for them both to succeed. If Swoopes gets hurt, everybody is a Heard fan. Heard needs to develop and be ready.

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I think the poster who is dissing Swoopes is only looking at the won/loss records. Heard won 2 state championships and Swoopes went 1-9(I think) his senior year. I like Swoopes. I think he gives us the best chance to win now and now is what matters to the program and the recruits. I do hope we can get the ball downfield a bit more.

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I'm surprised anyone can make a judgment on Swoops after two games. He has the physical ability already to be successful QB, it's the mental part of the position that he has to improve.

 

I'm impressed with the way Swoops has improved from the spring game to BYU and the UCLA game. As long as Swoops can keep improving and he's a successful QB at the end of the season then he will be the starter next year. If not then Heard will be able to fight for the starting job.

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You'll get a kick out of this.  I posed a question at IT that went as follows:

"Would you rather Swoopes be playing for OU or for us?".

 

Now this seems a pretty simple question, right?

 

Wrong.

 

The Swoopes antagonists have answered with scenarios like "I'll take Knight over Swoopes", yada, yada, yada,   I been told the question is invalid as it has no context - on and on.

 

None will answer the question direct.  It's maddening, I tell you - and it is down right funny as well.

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If we can just make it though the rest of the year with Swoopes not being injured, we are shaping up to have a really good QB corps for the future - what with Swoopes, Heard, Gentry and probably an, as yet, unnamed QB for 2017.

 

Unless, Heard makes a monumental jump in effectiveness - over Swoopes - I anticipate Swoopes being the starter for the next two years with Heard coming in behind him and Gentry behind Heard.  With all QB's finally having the benefit of, at least, a RS year.

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I have a hard time believing that we've seen enough to say that he's the future or that he's not going to work. I feel that we've seen him on a leash and haven't been able to see his arm strength. I can see the comparisons to Bridgewater, but it's really far too early to make any statements.

 

If you'll remember, many Texas fans were clamoring for Vince to be moved to WR prior to 2004. QB takes time to develop.

 

Bingo!

 

Two games is NOT enough to make a call on how good or not good he is going to be. Especially with the current state of the offense. I will say that's he done pretty good considering that the offense has no one that is a difference maker, has no one with game-breaking speed, and has a terrible offensive line.

 

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