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Texas A&M Aggies


Darrell McPhaul
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There is no such thing as a Texas aggy anymore than there is a Texas raider, Texas bobcat or a Texas javalina, etc. No other school with aggie as their mascot attempts to usurp their flagship university's name.

 

 

 

For awhile, they tried to get away with baseball jerseys that had "TEXAS" is large letters and "aggy" in teeny tiny letters.

Could not see A&M at all anywhere on that shirt.

Talk about literally wearing your envy on your sleeve.

 

LOLz.

 

607482.jpg

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Another way to put it is - if the corps cultists had been removed in the beginning, what would their culture be like today?

 

The problem with aggys is they have no sense of humor and they have always taken themselves seriously. That makes them targets for ridicule and derision.

 

No doubt.

 

I tried telling my neighbor, a former corps member, that they screwed up back in '63 when they didn't just go ahead and change the name to "Texas State" and drop all of the paramilitary stuff. Not having it. Funny part is, most students are "2%ers" while at A&M; never work on Bonfire, don't respect the corps, never attend Muster, etc.

 

But, once they have that ring they'll go on about how great aggy traditions are. *eyes roll*

Edited by J.B. TexasEx
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It makes a HUGE difference. ags have such an institutionalized sense of inferiority that they have assumed a behavior not found in most institutions of higher education.

 

I have written about a number of examples of how they have rewritten the history of their school to make themselves out to be more than they are. Their false claim to be the oldest public university in Texas, their fabricated 12th Man story, their insistence they are responsible for naming Bevo and their insistence they produced more officers during WWII than all the service academies combined. Their latest attempt at fictionalizing their history is to rewrite what happened during bonfire collapse to make the school the victim of a tragedy, glossing over the mistakes and bad decisions for which university administrators were directly responsible. They call UT "tu" claiming they are the REAL University of Texas. They call UT fans and faithful "teasips" claiming that while aggys were out fighting and winning the nation's wars, UT faculty, students and alumni sat back, doing nothing, refusing to serve their country. They have an indoctrination camp called "fish camp" which teaches these false aspects of Texas history as fact and if individuals question any aspect of these teachings, they are singled out and derided - for daring to question false beliefs.

 

To develop myths and fables does not single out the ags. What singles them out is how the react when others do not see them the way they see themselves or the way they believe they deserve to be seen. My "21st Man" article that debunked their false 12th Man story (the one that was picked up on by the Wall Street Journal earlier this month) was at first derided as factually infirm and the work of a misguided and obsessed individual. The writer from the WSJ had also written for the New York Times, the Boston Globe and had been an editor of the Oxford English Dictionary. The guy knows writing and he thought my piece was both well written and well researched. I can understand the ags would not receive with open arms an article that paints them as other than they see themselves. What sets the ags apart from those associated with other institutions of higher learning is how they react when others see them other than how they see themselves.

 

Be it the Rice MOB, the SMU cheerleaders or any of a number of stories we all know well, when challenged by those who see the ags differently than how the ags believe they should be seen by others, over generations the ags have shown a propensity to lash out with childlike rage and with physical violence. This is a trait not generally found as an acceptable and prized behavior by many other groups of "highly educated" individuals. For my contributing the basic research for the WSJ article, I have received death threats. A group of ags numbering in the thousands have banded together on texags to identify me, find the name of my wife, determine the identities of my children, and the identities and addresses of my siblings and my parents. They want to know my address, my place of employment and where I might be found. They want this all made public and posted on their website. This, for the identified purposes of "ruining my life" and to expressly do bodily harm to me. All because an article I wrote was picked up on by the Wall Street Journal for an article written by one of their writers. The graduates of "an esteemed and elite world class university" have banded together in a cabal to enact personal violence onto an individual who dared show the history they teach their students and that they represent to the world at large isn't consistent with the historical record. They aren't claiming what I wrote was essentially wrong. They haven't gone to the WSJ demanding a retraction. They are angry because my original article was written. They feel that part of history should never have been brought to light. The graduates of every elite university to not band together to commit personal violence to those who do historical research and bring knowledge to light. The graduates of tamu do.

 

As individuals, the ags can be fine friends, neighbors and Texans. As individuals, their collective identity coalesces and their beliefs, actions and judgment becomes affected. Graduates from OU, UT, Baylor, USC, Harvard or Notre Dame do not generally band together on school centric websites to stalk individuals who dare challenge their collective groupthink (notice I left LSU and Bama off that list. God only knows what those rednecks are capable of). As a group, the ags lack the belief that the history of their school is sufficient to stand on its own without gross embellishment. As a group, they lack the ability to be self critical and consider how they can be better then they are or to perceive how their course of action might be misguided. As a group, they lose the ability to act like mature, educated adults.

 

Certain universities teach individuals how to think. UT is one of those. UT taught me the essence of education is to question the beliefs and teachings of the previous generation and to build on them wherever possible. Doing so is the absolute reason great universities were first established - to build the base of knowledge and understanding and pass what we have added on to future generations to do the same. I would not have been able to survive at tamu. I have too great of an intellectual curiosity. At tamu, they they stung intellectual curiosity to promote a more rigid way of thinking. Ags are institutionally taught what to think, not how to think. Significantly, they are also taught to believe as fact a segment of Texas history the university administrators know that is fabricated, that segment being the history of their university and their associated identity as aggys. As a group they are very much different in what they believe and how they are taught to think.

 

What damned difference does it make which school any of us went to? It makes a huge difference.

THIs comes closer to nailing the problems the rest of the free world has with Texas A&M and its' cultists than anything I've seen written before.

 

Perhaps I will get death threats and other crap for responding to this, but who the hell cares what those mouth-breathers have to think about what's said here. Texas A&M does create around itself, and among its' most ardent supporters a cult atmosphere. That bunch has deserved well the scorn they get, not only from UT folks, but essentially, any school that has dealings with them. There's already a growing sense of buyers' remorse in the SEC over A&M's addition, no matter how much aggy fan goes around chanting "S-E-C".

 

I really don't like to paint with a broad brush, and I understand that there are plenty of students who attend A&M simply to get an education, and NOT to be indoctrinated into some cultish behavior. That being said, A&M as an institution should be judged by the behavior of its' supporters. I don't know of another institution that takes pride in the fact that it has kidnapped, and killed, other teams' mascots. I can't accept that any other schools would condone students/corps members physically threatening another school's cheerleaders for simply stepping foot on A&M's football field. I know my memory is getting old, but I can't remember another school who's fans have taken delight on flinging dung on band members of a rival school. It's inconceivable to me that any other universities out there would try to gloss over hazing rituals that have resulted in the death of at least one student, as happened several years ago at A&M. This is just a sampling of various attitudes and activities that, to me, and I think to any rationally-thinking individual would be considered inappropriate and unacceptable behavior.

 

It's mentioned in the post above how A&M has tried to rewrite history, ignoring truth in the process, to try to add to its' "achievements". I wouldn't want to be a fan of any school that out-and-out condones telling lies for gain, as admins at A&M obviously do. One piece of history I haven't noticed A&M talking about is their history as one of the most penalized schools for violating NCAA rules. I guess they don't care about being number one in that category.

 

I posted elsewhere here that I really don't care to have that much association with supporters of that school. I don't feel the need to apologize at all. I've tried to be gracious to fans of A&M over the years, and the general response on their part is to see that as a weakness, and to return civility with brags, cursing, and worse. Excuse me if I'm not overly impressed with their average fans. I did note above that there are some A&M fans that come to this site, and others, and try to carry on logical and courteous conversations. I appreciate that, and I suspect other UT fans do as well.

 

If I had a family member that wanted to attend A&M, I wouldn't discourage it. I think each of us should be free to attend whatever college we want to without that choice being criticized. I also don't think it's right for me to try to force my opinion of that school on anyone else. That being said, I've never been shy, nor will I ever be, in citing the reasons why I could NEVER support or be a fan of agricultural. I rebel at being a part of any cult, even one of a college.

Edited by coolhorn
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  • 4 weeks later...

This reminded me of the aggies, so am dropping it into this thread --

 

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Whistleblower says UNC put athletes in classes that never met and required only one final paper. This one got an A-. <a href="http://t.co/HShyr6ivGm">pic.twitter.com/HShyr6ivGm</a></p>— Bryan Armen Graham (@BryanAGraham) <a href="

">March 26, 2014</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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My favorite aggie debate is their thinking that A&M was chosen instead of UT for a 'prestigious' SEC membership. Like they they had somehow earned a merit-based promotion or are better than us. Really? Based on what objective measure?

 

The SEC and Mike Slive wanted into the Texas market before launching SEC Network. It was about gaining distribution and TV household penetration. UT wasn't moving due to our LHN commitment. Slive wanted the 2nd best TX brand? Unlikely.

 

Honestly, I can't blame A&M for joining the SEC. They needed to find an edge for competing with UT athletically, especially in football. Historically, a level playing field didn't work for them.

 

LOL - well said.

 

I think an aggie that can be objective (is there such a thing?) will admit that, given a choice, the SEC would have taken UT over aggy anyday. In fact, that applies today as well.

Edited by doc longhorn
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I agree... My God-son, a member of the Corp was killed there in October in a motorcycle accident. Before they "pulled the plug", I spent a day in the hospital with my brothers family. There was always 20-40 Corp members there in support. We had many prayer groups on knees asking for the best. I met & immediately became friends with the Commandant of the Corp, Joe Ramirez. Just a wonderful man who had the right things to say comforting all. Gained lots of respect for them through that experience... Let's face it, all schools & teams have great people & asshole people... Just how it is...

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Tlouhorn, I am sorry for your loss. I understand that aggies and horns are by and large good people. My father and brother, with their army experience, really wanted me to go to A&M. I thought about it but could not do so. We are all Texans and Americans. Heaven forbid we would be unable to make fun of our differences which are really not very important. Nonetheless the rest of this post that I was working on before I had seen your post, still stands on its' own merit.

 

I like Lyle Lovett. He is an aggie and I forgive him for it because I like the music of his Large Band. When I was a teenager, I loved watching Randy Matson, the shot putter, play basketball. That appealed to my fullback trying to play basketball mentality. Other than that, I do not give a pea whah doodle about those aggies' sense of self.

 

Back in the Seventies, I worked for the Council of Governments in Abilene as a planner. We had an engineer that was an aggie. He was a nice enough guy, but he was a tad unusual. We also had a draftsman who was an ex - Viet Nam helicopter pilot who had gone to ATM for one year. They hung around each other a lot so I figured that they were tight because they were aggies. One day, the draftsman and I went to lunch together and I asked him about his friendship with the aggie engineer. He hesitated. I pursued the subject and he finally told me two things that have formed my attitude about aggies to this day.

 

First of all, he said that the aggie engineer's concept regarding what a vacation was was to spend two weeks every summer going back to College Station at the beginning of fall football practice, staying at the Holiday Inn across from the ATM campus, going to watch the football practice, eating lunch and dinner every day at the Greasy Chicken, or whatever that place is called, and going out every night and dancing country and western with supposed ATM coeds - you gotta remember that coeds were new there is those days. Now I can understand liking country and western dancing and even wanting to watch your college football team do football practice - it is just the over all picture of this vacation description that is a bit disturbing. Now, that is enough, in and of itself, but the worst was yet to come.

 

Then, the one year aggie army helicopter pilot from the Viet Nam era, told me that he and the aggie engineer used to get together on Saturdays to watch college football games. he told me that one Saturday he was running a bit late. He parked his car, and as he was walking up the sidewalk to his aggie fiends' porch, he noticed that the door was open behind the screen door and he could hear the game on the TV. As he approached the door, he saw a commotion inside. He saw his friend, all by his own self, dressed in all of the glory of his corpse regalia jump up from his couch and do the corpse rigamarole that they do - all by his own self in his living room (did I say that?). Now at that point in time, as he told it, the ex - Viet Nam army helicopter pilot, having put in one year at ATM, and feeling just a tad ambivalent about his relationship with his aggie engineer friend ... well, slowly he backed away, went home, and never had an ATM football day again!

 

Such are the tails and tales of aggies in America! ;)

Edited by budreaureye
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Originally Posted by Randolph Duke View Post

It makes a HUGE difference. ags have such an institutionalized sense of inferiority that they have assumed a behavior not found in most institutions of higher education.

 

I have written about a number of examples of how they have rewritten the history of their school to make themselves out to be more than they are. Their false claim to be the oldest public university in Texas, their fabricated 12th Man story, their insistence they are responsible for naming Bevo and their insistence they produced more officers during WWII than all the service academies combined. Their latest attempt at fictionalizing their history is to rewrite what happened during bonfire collapse to make the school the victim of a tragedy, glossing over the mistakes and bad decisions for which university administrators were directly responsible. They call UT "tu" claiming they are the REAL University of Texas. They call UT fans and faithful "teasips" claiming that while aggys were out fighting and winning the nation's wars, UT faculty, students and alumni sat back, doing nothing, refusing to serve their country. They have an indoctrination camp called "fish camp" which teaches these false aspects of Texas history as fact and if individuals question any aspect of these teachings, they are singled out and derided - for daring to question false beliefs.

 

To develop myths and fables does not single out the ags. What singles them out is how the react when others do not see them the way they see themselves or the way they believe they deserve to be seen. My "21st Man" article that debunked their false 12th Man story (the one that was picked up on by the Wall Street Journal earlier this month) was at first derided as factually infirm and the work of a misguided and obsessed individual. The writer from the WSJ had also written for the New York Times, the Boston Globe and had been an editor of the Oxford English Dictionary. The guy knows writing and he thought my piece was both well written and well researched. I can understand the ags would not receive with open arms an article that paints them as other than they see themselves. What sets the ags apart from those associated with other institutions of higher learning is how they react when others see them other than how they see themselves.

 

Be it the Rice MOB, the SMU cheerleaders or any of a number of stories we all know well, when challenged by those who see the ags differently than how the ags believe they should be seen by others, over generations the ags have shown a propensity to lash out with childlike rage and with physical violence. This is a trait not generally found as an acceptable and prized behavior by many other groups of "highly educated" individuals. For my contributing the basic research for the WSJ article, I have received death threats. A group of ags numbering in the thousands have banded together on texags to identify me, find the name of my wife, determine the identities of my children, and the identities and addresses of my siblings and my parents. They want to know my address, my place of employment and where I might be found. They want this all made public and posted on their website. This, for the identified purposes of "ruining my life" and to expressly do bodily harm to me. All because an article I wrote was picked up on by the Wall Street Journal for an article written by one of their writers. The graduates of "an esteemed and elite world class university" have banded together in a cabal to enact personal violence onto an individual who dared show the history they teach their students and that they represent to the world at large isn't consistent with the historical record. They aren't claiming what I wrote was essentially wrong. They haven't gone to the WSJ demanding a retraction. They are angry because my original article was written. They feel that part of history should never have been brought to light. The graduates of every elite university to not band together to commit personal violence to those who do historical research and bring knowledge to light. The graduates of tamu do.

 

As individuals, the ags can be fine friends, neighbors and Texans. As individuals, their collective identity coalesces and their beliefs, actions and judgment becomes affected. Graduates from OU, UT, Baylor, USC, Harvard or Notre Dame do not generally band together on school centric websites to stalk individuals who dare challenge their collective groupthink (notice I left LSU and Bama off that list. God only knows what those rednecks are capable of). As a group, the ags lack the belief that the history of their school is sufficient to stand on its own without gross embellishment. As a group, they lack the ability to be self critical and consider how they can be better then they are or to perceive how their course of action might be misguided. As a group, they lose the ability to act like mature, educated adults.

 

Certain universities teach individuals how to think. UT is one of those. UT taught me the essence of education is to question the beliefs and teachings of the previous generation and to build on them wherever possible. Doing so is the absolute reason great universities were first established - to build the base of knowledge and understanding and pass what we have added on to future generations to do the same. I would not have been able to survive at tamu. I have too great of an intellectual curiosity. At tamu, they they stung intellectual curiosity to promote a more rigid way of thinking. Ags are institutionally taught what to think, not how to think. Significantly, they are also taught to believe as fact a segment of Texas history the university administrators know that is fabricated, that segment being the history of their university and their associated identity as aggys. As a group they are very much different in what they believe and how they are taught to think.

 

What damned difference does it make which school any of us went to? It makes a huge difference.[/Quote]

 

This is very sad. Just goes to show you that supposed upstanding citizens can be cultish. They are amongst us. They are of our religions and they are of our political parties. Of course, these cultish folks see themselves as the mainstream. We have to be diligent in our watchfulness.

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WHo cares! I have Aggie friends but why make this post. No one on this board really cares. Maybe they do but I do not know why. We care about Texas!!!! We are TExas!!!!!!Bring on the Aggies

 

Why would you even post this? I think that some of us have a certain level of distaste for all things aggroid for historic reasons. And other than the usual adversarial distaste that is found in intercollegiate athletics, lo and behold!, some of it may be justified. Some on this board do care. In case you did not know it, there are more than a few olden fartes on this board. Maybe there are reasons why some feel the way that they do. Maybe you should consider that, instead of assuming that your version of Texas athletic reality is the same that everyone else sees or experiences. As a beginning, try reading a few of the posts on this thread. If that does not enlighten you, try asking someone who has been around a while. You might learn something.

Edited by budreaureye
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Today, I had an aggy TASO football officiating associate ask me, "Who is Coach Strong?"

 

No, he wasn't being facetious or condescending. Just being an ignorant aggy. You can't make this stuff up! :rolleyes:

 

Here is something to keep in mind when dealing with aggys. UT Austin has about 36,000 undergrads and about 48,000 total students on campus. TAMU College Station has a couple thousand more undergrads and about 54,000 total students. The operating budget of UT Austin (just the main campus, not the system) is right at $2.4 billion. The operating budget at TAMU College Station is right at $1.3 billion. The ags have about 10% more students than UT Austin but the annual operating budget for TAMU Farmville is a BILLION DOLLARS less than the budget for UT Austin. UT Austin spends ONE BILLION GODDAMNED DOLLARS more to educate fewer students. One billion dollars is more than the entire operating budget of OU Norman (which has roughly 26,000 undergrads). I don't care if you start with the ballet majors, move to the pottery majors and go from there. ONE BILLION DOLLARS each and every year is going to eventually result in some serious effects on the overall quality of the educational experience offered to the students on campus.

 

Don't ever kid yourself that the quality of the education offered at UT Austin and that of TAMU College Station or OU Norman are in any way similar. Ask anyone in academia at any university what an increase of a billion dollars a year to the operating budget would do to improve the quality of the education offered to students on campus.

 

I give the aggys a lot of sh!t and for good reason. Just wait until you see what happens to the "quality" of the graduate from their university once Rick Perry's "reforms" start running their enrollment up to 70,000 with a cap on tuition at $10,000 for four years. Meanwhile, $100 crude prices continue to pour billions more into the PUF so the endowment continues to grow both from new contributions as well as from investment returns. Additions to the PUF from royalties total almost a billion dollars a year. I can't think of any state that adds a billion dollars a year of state funds to their university endowments and I can't think of any private university that gains close to a billion dollars a year to its endowment from alumni gifts.

Edited by Randolph Duke
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Here is something to keep in mind when dealing with aggys. UT Austin has about 36,000 undergrads and about 48,000 total students on campus. TAMU College Station has a couple thousand more undergrads and about 54,000 total students. The operating budget of UT Austin (just the main campus, not the system) is right at $2.4 billion. The operating budget at TAMU College Station is right at $1.3 billion. The ags have about 10% more students than UT Austin but the annual operating budget for TAMU Farmville is a BILLION DOLLARS less than the budget for UT Austin. UT Austin spends ONE BILLION GODDAMNED DOLLARS more to educate fewer students. One billion dollars is more than the entire operating budget of OU Norman (which has roughly 26,000 undergrads). I don't care if you start with the ballet majors, move to the pottery majors and go from there. ONE BILLION DOLLARS each and every year is going to eventually result in some serious effects on the overall quality of the educational experience offered to the students on campus.

 

Don't ever kid yourself that the quality of the education offered at UT Austin and that of TAMU College Station or OU Norman are in any way similar. Ask anyone in academia at any university what an increase of a billion dollars a year to the operating budget would do to improve the quality of the education offered to students on campus.

 

I give the aggys a lot of sh!t and for good reason. Just wait until you see what happens to the "quality" of the graduate from their university once Rick Perry's "reforms" start running their enrollment up to 70,000 with a cap on tuition at $10,000 for four years. Meanwhile, $100 crude prices continue to pour billions more into the PUF so the endowment continues to grow both from new contributions as well as from investment returns. Additions to the PUF from royalties total almost a billion dollars a year. I can't think of any state that adds a billion dollars a year of state funds to their university endowments and I can't think of any private university that gains close to a billion dollars a year to its endowment from alumni gifts.

 

I must say. That does explain a lot.

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I must say. That does explain a lot.

 

Yep. The total operating budgets of LSU and Univ of Alabama are less than $1 billion. The total endowment of U of A is less than this year's addition to the PUF. The numbers are just insane. By almost any metric, UT is an incredible place. The only area we are failing is in athletics.

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Yeah, I despise Rick Perry's vision for public schools in this state, and I hate the idea of becoming a degree factory, something that we have slowly been moving towards for years. With a billion dollars more in the budget, the ROI isn't substantially higher in education as it should be, although it seems like both our schools are constantly in the news for research and the like consistently. UT-Austin hasn't expanded much recently due to being essentially landlocked and embedded within the area outside of downtown Austin. Is the plan to continue to build up the satellite campuses to eventually become tier 1 quality campuses (UTSA)?

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Yeah, I despise Rick Perry's vision for public schools in this state, and I hate the idea of becoming a degree factory, something that we have slowly been moving towards for years. With a billion dollars more in the budget, the ROI isn't substantially higher in education as it should be, although it seems like both our schools are constantly in the news for research and the like consistently. UT-Austin hasn't expanded much recently due to being essentially landlocked and embedded within the area outside of downtown Austin. Is the plan to continue to build up the satellite campuses to eventually become tier 1 quality campuses (UTSA)?

 

It is next to impossible (unless you rely on the payscale.com survey) to quantify a return on the investment (ROI) of a college education, so any "ROI" on a college degree is meaningless. UT Austin is about to expand to the tune of a half a billion dollars with the system's fourth med school to start with and to grow from there. That, in addition to the other improvements on campus.

 

Try and convince anyone a BILLION DOLLARS every year is meaningless. The only people that will insist it is are associated with TAMU Farmville.

 

I guarantee you the plan is not to make sure UT Austin is on par with UTSA. LOL. Aggy, lol.

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I would expect UT-Austin to be set apart from A&M with that kind of budget, but the reality is that the schools are relatively close given the difference in budgeting: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public (take whichever ranking you wish they tend to be close). I'm asking what is the extra money going towards to improve the school and widen the gap? I can agree that UT is more well rounded as a university, there are very few weaknesses within the different colleges of the university like A&M (liberal arts and lack of renowned medical/law school are just a few examples), so maybe there is where the extra money is beneficial. Arguing that there is a major difference in degree quality across the whole spectrum seems far-fetched though, the schools have relatively similar sample ROIs (not sure of validity), similar rankings in most publications, and there has never been feedback either way about one or the other being more beneficial from my correspondence with prospective employers.

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