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I really like Strong, but...


doc longhorn
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I wonder what it would be like if we had hired:

 

Briles - Huge advantage in knowing the state, the recruits and the coaches. Spread offenses are prolific in the Texas HS ranks and therefore the recruits more readily come tailor made for Briles offense. I'm, also, convinced these spread coaches rely on scoring quickly and often as their defenses. If they can throw up 40 - 50 points a game, that is tremendous pressure for the opposing teams that don't have an offense as prolific. That's why Baylor hasn't needed a dominant defense. Hell, their offense IS their defense.

If Briles came to Texas, that is what we could expect and I don't know if the fan base would stand for it.

 

Saban - I think he would have attracted recruits because he IS Saban. I liked him as being a hire that would counter Sumlin's momentum in recruiting. However, as opposed to some, I think he would struggle in the Big 12 - at least in the beginning. He's never seen anything like the Big 12's offenses in the SEC. However, Saban being Saban, I have no doubt he would have eventually brought Texas back to national prominence again.

 

Gruden - Ha, ha, ha

 

Harbaugh - Even tougher than Strong and will not suffer a perceived slacker. Like Strong, he would be 180 degrees away from the previous regimes culture - and that includes the BMD's. God help them if they tried to interfere. Like everyone but Briles, his lack of familiarity with Texas would hurt him and it would be a couple of years before he could be successful.

Edited by doc longhorn
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I wonder what it would be like if we had hired:

 

Briles - Huge advantage in knowing the state, the recruits and the coaches. Spread offenses are prolific in the Texas HS ranks and therefore the recruits more readily come tailor made for Briles offense. I'm, also, convinced these spread coaches rely on scoring quickly and often as their defenses. If they can throw up 40 - 50 points a game, that is tremendous pressure for the opposing teams that don't have an offense as prolific. That's why Baylor hasn't needed a dominant defense. Hell, their offense IS their defense.

If Briles came to Texas, that is what we could expect and I don't know if the fan base would stand for it.

 

Saban - I think he would have attracted recruits because he IS Saban. I liked him as being a hire that would counter Sumlin's momentum in recruiting. However, as opposed to some, I think he would struggle in the Big 12 - at least in the beginning. He's never seen anything like the Big 12's offenses in the SEC. However, Saban being Saban, I have no doubt he would have eventually brought Texas back to national prominence again.

 

Gruden - Ha, ha, ha

 

Harbaugh - Even tougher than Strong and will not suffer a perceived slacker. Like Strong, he would be 180 degrees away from the previous regimes culture - and that includes the BMD's. God help them if they tried to interfere. Like everyone but Briles, his lack of familiarity with Texas would hurt him and it would be a couple of years before he could be successful.

So...you really like Strong...about fifth or sixth best. (Just having some fun with you Doc! I know you feel pretty much like I do on Strong.)

Edited by coolhorn
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In today's Super Bowl, the team with the best defense... and I mean the DAMNED BEST defense I thought I would ever see ... dominated and won convincingly. They imposed their will from the opening play and stayed in the heads of the opposition.

 

We just hired a coach with that kind of philosophy. It's a matter of what can be accomplished with youth and inexperience at the college level (pros have 4, 8, 10 and 12 years experience...although Seattle actually is a relatively young squad). In college, practice is limited.

 

But, we'll see. And the problem in college is that no one can stop anybody. I would think the team that can put the breaks on the other team -- has some kind of advantage. Otherwise, it's a roll of the dice to go into 12 straight shootouts.

 

Royal's teams where very defensive minded. Go back and look at those 7's and 0's held to the opposition routinely. In the better years, I mean.

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I can't help myself. The words just keep ringing through my head "Trust RC...Trust RC....Trust RC".............It was the Aggie mantra when Mack Brown started kicking ass by recruiting every 4 star and 5 star that lived in the state of texas and aggy was whiffing time after time after time. The aggy message boards were chock full of "real" aggies telling everyone there was no need to worry about the snake oil salesman. Just repeat after me "Trust RC Trust RC Trust RC"

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Why are you comparing apples to oranges? The more apt comparison is RC to Mack Brown. Two coaches who started slipping on recruiting while certain parts of the fanbase propped them up.

 

Trust Strong is merely stating that we should give the coach at least a year in the office before crapping on his results 3 weeks on the job.

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For A&M's first two seasons in the SEC they had Johnny Manziel while Texas was captained by a coach on the wane.

 

At the conclusion of those two seasons, A&M's QB is leaving to turn pro, and Texas has a new head coach and athletic director.

 

How will the two programs fair with those two major changes?

 

Maybe that will be evident o the Feb '16 signing. That's after two seasons of no Manziel at College Station, and a new regime at Texas.

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Why start off saying I really like Strong but!! Come man admit it you still have your feelings hurt because UT did not hire who you wanted. Next year at this time you will be saying I sure was right about Charlie Strong he was the right guy for UT to hire.

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Why are you comparing apples to oranges? The more apt comparison is RC to Mack Brown. Two coaches who started slipping on recruiting while certain parts of the fanbase propped them up.

 

Trust Strong is merely stating that we should give the coach at least a year in the office before crapping on his results 3 weeks on the job.

I'm not saying we shouldn't give Charley Strong a chance to make good. I like Charlie and think he's a hell of a good coach, but you can't think we can consistently recruit a bunch of 3 star players and make them into stars unless you want to delude yourself into expecting something unrealistic (ergo, the trust RC reference). Naturally this particular year is a mulligan for Charlie. It was never going to be a good one for either Charlie or Mack. But next year is going to tell us something about Charlie. He better start pulling in some players or we're going to be in for a pretty good dry spell.

 

You think Saban wins with his great coaching abilities?? Go back and check out what kind of athletes he's recruited over the last 5 years and how those recruiting classes are ranked.

 

What I am saying is that recruiting does matter and we can't ignore the fact that, as we speak, Sumlin is killing us. Mack Brown was a dead man walking this year and everyone knew it. There was no way for Mack to continue to recruit successfully when there were a jillion guys like you that said he was washed up. He never stood a chance with recruiting after he got his legs cut out from under him by the fans.

 

Mack Brown was a top 5 recruiter over the last 15 years when measured by any standard you want to measure. The results of that recruiting success show up something like this over a 16 year period: 158 wins and 48 losses with the 4th highest winning percentage of all Divison 1 teams during that 16 year span..I suppose comparing Mack to RC was like comparing apples to oranges but not for any of the reasons that you imply. Mack was immensely more successful that RC in any way you want to measure it.

 

Mack has set the table for Charley pretty good by bringing in a # 3 ranked recruiting class in 2010, a no. 3 ranked class in 2011, and a no. 2 ranked class in 2012. Mack only signed 15 players in 2013 and 9 of those were 4 stars. So you think Mack was slipping on recruiting while certain parts of the fanbase propped him up?? When exactly did that happen?? 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013??? And you somehow think this is some kind of more appropriate comparison to RC??

 

I'd like for you to justify how its more sensible to compare Mack to RC with some facts. Can you do that?

Edited by pringlelake
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This "I like Coach Strong but..." guys the sh1t is getting old. He has been able to recruit for 2 weeks and you're ready to concede defeat?

 

Get over your love of Mack and realize he handcuffed any coach that followed his pitiful act. Strong and no one else gets credited extra visits...that includes Saban, Fisher, Mazahn, etc...

 

You wanted us to back Mack well, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Get on board or shut up!!!

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Stop with the pessimistic posts. He is our coach, and you can play 'what if' all day. He will bring an attitude that will resonate with the player, and we will have a defense that will be tough. I'm tired of reading the doom and gloom posts on this site. In addition to the d&g, there is a lot of ignorance which is frustrating. Let Charlie have a shot. We are blessed to have him in my opinion. He has a chip on his shoulder, and waiting for years to have the opportunity to be a head coach, nonetheless the head coach of the best school in the nation. Keep your heads up. I'm not sunshine pumping, but just saying to drop the pessimism before the guy coaches a single game.

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There are players who will like and buy into a system that is focused on just studying and playing, and those are hard-nosed players that reflect the coadhing philosophy. That will really kick in next year. That's what's been lacking, and they aren't going to be two and three star guys, either. There are lots of talented players who will go that route today.

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I like Strong but I remember my first reaction after reading the "Strong Rules".

 

I think stuff like that worked in the 60's. Not so sure it is the right way to start off today.

 

And you'd be wrong about that. Discipline and clear rules work in any decade. What was not working was the country club, rock star atmosphere.

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And you'd be wrong about that. Discipline and clear rules work in any decade. What was not working was the country club, rock star atmosphere.

 

Actually, the only rule that got my attention as a potential deal breaker for some recruits was the "living on campus until you're a senior rule."

 

That will lose a few recruits. The rest of them would probably work in any decade.

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I'm not saying we shouldn't give Charley Strong a chance to make good. I like Charlie and think he's a hell of a good coach, but you can't think we can consistently recruit a bunch of 3 star players and make them into stars unless you want to delude yourself into expecting something unrealistic (ergo, the trust RC reference). Naturally this particular year is a mulligan for Charlie. It was never going to be a good one for either Charlie or Mack. But next year is going to tell us something about Charlie. He better start pulling in some players or we're going to be in for a pretty good dry spell.

 

You think Saban wins with his great coaching abilities?? Go back and check out what kind of athletes he's recruited over the last 5 years and how those recruiting classes are ranked.

 

What I am saying is that recruiting does matter and we can't ignore the fact that, as we speak, Sumlin is killing us. Mack Brown was a dead man walking this year and everyone knew it. There was no way for Mack to continue to recruit successfully when there were a jillion guys like you that said he was washed up. He never stood a chance with recruiting after he got his legs cut out from under him by the fans.

 

Mack Brown was a top 5 recruiter over the last 15 years when measured by any standard you want to measure. The results of that recruiting success show up something like this over a 16 year period: 158 wins and 48 losses with the 4th highest winning percentage of all Divison 1 teams during that 16 year span..I suppose comparing Mack to RC was like comparing apples to oranges but not for any of the reasons that you imply. Mack was immensely more successful that RC in any way you want to measure it.

 

Mack has set the table for Charley pretty good by bringing in a # 3 ranked recruiting class in 2010, a no. 3 ranked class in 2011, and a no. 2 ranked class in 2012. Mack only signed 15 players in 2013 and 9 of those were 4 stars. So you think Mack was slipping on recruiting while certain parts of the fanbase propped him up?? When exactly did that happen?? 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013??? And you somehow think this is some kind of more appropriate comparison to RC??

 

I'd like for you to justify how its more sensible to compare Mack to RC with some facts. Can you do that?

 

 

It's time to move away grading Mack based on his recruiting or numbers of wins. Why?

 

(1) Recruiting is a facade unless the program wins championships with the players recruited. 2 championships in 16 years (12.5%) is pitiful for a Texas coach.

(2) Wins against unranked teams don't matter with so many easy games inserted to comprise a 12-game schedule. 7 of Mack's touted 10-win seasons included zero wins against ranked teams, no championships, and no BCS appearances. Against Top 10 teams, Mack lost 68% of his games.

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The guy's had less than a month to build a staff and get them on the same page with his offensive/defensive plans, less than a month to meet with current/potential commits and flips and has yet to have had the chance to coach one down of football. How can you base his ability to recruit in Texas based on him having just a couple of weeks to play catch up? I think the guy's done a great job in the short time that he's had and a great job despite the fact that he was, IMO, handcuffed by the previous regime to a certain extent.

 

As for the rules...I love 'em. I'm ready to see a group of kids who want to be Longhorns regardless of the work they have to do take the field. If we miss out on recruits because they can't handle a little discipline and a little work then I'm fine with that...fewer slackers to waste scholarships offer and fewer that have to be weeded out when they can't cut it. I'm sick of the entitled, half-assed football that I've had to endure the last couple of years.

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Stop with the pessimistic posts. He is our coach, and you can play 'what if' all day. He will bring an attitude that will resonate with the player, and we will have a defense that will be tough. I'm tired of reading the doom and gloom posts on this site. In addition to the d&g, there is a lot of ignorance which is frustrating. Let Charlie have a shot. We are blessed to have him in my opinion. He has a chip on his shoulder, and waiting for years to have the opportunity to be a head coach, nonetheless the head coach of the best school in the nation. Keep your heads up. I'm not sunshine pumping, but just saying to drop the pessimism before the guy coaches a single game.

 

 

You are just as guilty with you blind optimism. Time will tell with CS. I think he needs to win quickly or this will be a short stay. The only way to turn the tide is to win. This is why I was not super happy when we hired him. I thought we needed someone with more skins on the wall. If he can win I think he can get past this. But if he doesn't get to 10 next year I predict he will not last at Texas. Without 10 wins Aggie will dominate again in recruiting. We cannot afford another bad class because we won't have the talent around CS will need come 16.

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...come now doc, surely you know that we all love you, but are you feeling a bit beneath the weather? just tilt your hat to the man upstairs... for only the STRONG shall survive...

 

LOL - Oh no, I am very happy with the Strong hire. I think he is just what the doctor ordered, for the rotten culture we had.

 

I probably should have titled the thread - "What recruits would we have retained and acquired, had we hired.....?".

Edited by doc longhorn
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Why start off saying I really like Strong but!! Come man admit it you still have your feelings hurt because UT did not hire who you wanted. Next year at this time you will be saying I sure was right about Charlie Strong he was the right guy for UT to hire.

 

LOL - you are right. I really had my feelings hurt when we didn't select Saban or Briles. Even though I knew months ahead we weren't going to get either one. However, I like what I have seen with Strong so far. If you will check my above comment you will see what I really should have titled this thread - my actual point of posting it.

 

C'mon, people, it's the dull season and this was just a conjecture thread. It wasn't meant to bash Strong at all. Holy cow!

Edited by doc longhorn
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LOL - you are right. I really had my feelings hurt when we didn't select Saban or Briles. Even though I knew months ahead we weren't going to get either one. However, I like what I have seen with Strong so far. If you will check my above comment you will see what I really should have titled this thread - my actual point of posting it.

 

C'mon, people, it's the dull season and this was just a conjecture thread. It wasn't meant to bash Strong at all. Holy cow!

 

 

Doc....

 

I'm there with you. Strong wasn't my first choice either, but watching him these few weeks has me very impressed with him...Bringing Wickline has really gotten my attention. Also his stance on committment to academic as well as athletic improvement is impressive.

 

I like the way he has tightened the screws in the program....hopefully more to follow...

 

I am very interested in how he responds to the recruiting flip/flop circus going on these last few weeks....Not much he can do with this class, just hang on and hope we don't lose too many more. Hopefully his focus on the 2015 class recruits will get their attention....

 

He appears to be a man of great character, consistent with his words...expecting that these young men uphold theirs....

 

Can't wait to get it started.

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With all due respect, do we really have to rehash all of this? I mean, we just completed 6+ week gauntlet of this sort of analysis.

 

I have no idea if Strong was the best hire, time will tell, but we are where we are so lets focus on today. I for one am excited about the future and the coming culture change. I think Texas is going to be tough again, and it's been a long, long time since we've been able to say that.

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