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Angst over recruiting


SlickStreet
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We live in an age where we tend to want most things now, asap, with no (or minimal) delay. I think, too, the expectation by many of a Saban or Fischer (or even Harbaugh) hire has added to some frustration here regarding Charlie Strong not flipping four and five-star kids right and left while retaining anyone "worthy" (per our "expert analysis") from the prior regime's efforts.

 

The reality, though, is that we obviously have now a whole different type of leadership that changes the dynamic about as much as can be expected. How many of the kids that committed under Mack are really guys that Strong would have taken on his own accord? A few, most likely, but perhaps very few. This not only was considered Mack's weakest class on a per-player rating, but most importantly, the kids picked Texas based probably in large part on the Mack "family atmosphere," at least in many cases. It's likely, right off the bat, that those same kids would have a great hesitancy about staying with the same school due to such a dramatic change of the guard. It's not just different names at HC and most of the assistant positions, but a whole new expectation of accountability and toughness. Total atmosphere overhaul.

 

If a kid (even a four-star) doesn't feel an appeal to that, it's far better he move on NOW and leave that 'ship open, rather than suck a portion of the life out of the program. OTOH, the latter doesn't sound like it's likely to happen, especially if Strong's process creates an environment where the lesser effort guys will be naturally weeded out (their own lack of desire to put in the intense work, not so much being "trap doored" necessarily).

 

Meanwhile, in addition to the holdover commits from this less-than-stellar class, Strong of course starts anew with just a few weeks to work in trying to grab his own type kids. I suspect that's a big reason, naturally, that he'd be pursuing a couple or so former Louisville commits, guys who no longer want to play for the Cardinals but for Strong instead. Whether these kids are 100% Texas-type talents remain to be seen, but they're probably at least as good as most of what Mack managed to bring in, and they're probably also more inclined to pay the price for excellence that Strong obviously insists on.

 

Due to many factors, including Mack's strange last-minute whirlwind tour of recruiting prior to his departure (adding to an atmosphere of uncertainty and confusion, plus taking up visit allowances), Strong faces something of a steep uphill battle in this condensed time frame.

 

I for one, while a bit concerned with recruiting, am willing to wait and see how it all shakes out, and that doesn't just include thru signing day 2014, but thru signing day 2015. We can say that it's "aggie-esque" to approach things this way, as if we're rationalizing "failure," but the reality is we just don't know what we've got. The man must not only change the type of kids he goes after compared to the prior regime (if we truly want the regime change we mostly craved), but also of course what the whole program has been infested with--a major sense of entitlement, a sense of lethargy and contentment, even bordering perhaps on laziness, at least in some pockets of the program.

 

As a whole, Charlie Strong will be earning his money, at least in effort. This isn't going to be an overnight change. He not only has the prior class commits to sift thru, but a giant, deeply instilled culture. We mainly wanted cultural overhaul, and I think we'll get it. How much that requires early pain to produce is impossible to know. But I think we need to take a step back and deep breath and give the ride time to develop.

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"Due to many factors, including Mack's strange last-minute whirlwind tour of recruiting prior to his departure (adding to an atmosphere of uncertainty and confusion, plus taking up visit allowances), Strong faces something of a steep uphill battle in this condensed time frame."

 

 

This problem was all caused by Powers failure to promptly call for Mack's resignation after the Baylor game. It demonstrates further why the hiring and firing of football coaches needs to be removed from the control of university presidents who may have their own personal agendas and aren't knowledgeable about football.

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Your arguments are exactly why many were disappointed with the CS hire. We knew we had lost some mojo which is why many wanted a big name hire like NS. Strong will likely be a good coach but if expect me to believe had it been saban we wouldn't be better off right now then your crazy. NS would have got a few studs in here right away as compared to strong who can't even keep this very weak class locked down.

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Your arguments are exactly why many were disappointed with the CS hire. We knew we had lost some mojo which is why many wanted a big name hire like NS. Strong will likely be a good coach but if expect me to believe had it been saban we wouldn't be better off right now then your crazy. NS would have got a few studs in here right away as compared to strong who can't even keep this very weak class locked down.

 

Very weak... Strong is better for Texas than Saban. I was initially not convinced of this and just was ok with the Strong hire... but every since the press conference I am a Strong supporter and all in... so get all in or get out of the way

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"Due to many factors, including Mack's strange last-minute whirlwind tour of recruiting prior to his departure (adding to an atmosphere of uncertainty and confusion, plus taking up visit allowances), Strong faces something of a steep uphill battle in this condensed time frame."

 

 

This problem was all caused by Powers failure to promptly call for Mack's resignation after the Baylor game. It demonstrates further why the hiring and firing of football coaches needs to be removed from the control of university presidents who may have their own personal agendas and aren't knowledgeable about football.

I agree regarding Powers needing to remove Mack more promptly, but I think you have the bolded part reversed. While the big money guys certainly have a right to influence, they obviously greatly usurped their position, going totally around the chain of authority to try and get Saban (obviously assumes the multiple rumors of such are true).

 

Personally, I'm very glad they created far more urgency than Powers or Dodds ever would have, so we should be grateful. But they did themselves zero favors taking a hyper-independent approach that included a clear Powers adversary in Wallace Hall.

 

Put yourself in Powers' position and see where you'd stand on such.

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What evidence co you have to back that up. You believe CS will be better and maybe he will but in the short term a big name hire would have better for recruiting.

 

First of all a person would have to believe the premise that Saban was ever coming in the first place... If and I repeat if Saban would have come maybe there is a shot term victory in recruiting but what about the long term. ..

It comes down to trust... I don't trust Saban, however I do trust Strong and as a parent I think who would I want molding my SON both as a football player but also character. Longterm Strong will build a program that will be respected for there character and there winning. But that is neither here or there ... Are coach is Strong so stop your whining and start enjoying TexasStrong.

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I expect Strong to win big early if he's as good as you hope he is. And to suggest the cupboard is bare and he needs more time because we don't have his type of kid is just plain BS. There is plenty of talent on hand, and he knows it.

 

Only with a healthy quarterback. Can't win big without one.

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What evidence co you have to back that up. You believe CS will be better and maybe he will but in the short term a big name hire would have better for recruiting.

 

What evidence do you have all of a sudden recruits would switch to Texas because of Saban? Who knows if Saban even wanted to come (I'm not going to debate what supposed insiders claim).

 

The goal is to bring a top notch guy in to rebuild program, not a splash name to placate internet posters.

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I expect Strong to win big early if he's as good as you hope he is. And to suggest the cupboard is bare and he needs more time because we don't have his type of kid is just plain BS. There is plenty of talent on hand, and he knows it.

 

I think you really should look at the recruiting gaps at positions Mack left before you proclaim this.

 

Other then that your points have merit.

 

My opinion, #1 on the list of had to go was Dodds.

15 years a failure until 1998. The Big 12 formation, Mack (he wanted Barnett), and Ricky resurrected Texas.

Yep made a lot of $ as any decent AD would have under the same circumstances.

This "we're Texas" bravado has left us in the old SWC.

 

To add sitting around saying high ranked recruits don't matter is quite Aggy and statistics don't back that up.

Certainly have to coach them up upon arrival.

 

I'm disappointed in not hiring a big splash, young OC.

Much as Stoops did in 1999 with Mike Leach.

 

This is where we are at.

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Strong will get it done here. I have no doubts. He's a true football coach. Mack Brown was nothing but a politician. This class while not a top ten class isn't bad at all. It's top15-20 and beginning next year he should start pulling in more bluechippers. Good thing is he will recruit nationwide which will help us immensly. If we get a reliable qb for this season(hopefully Ash or Brewer) and if Wickline can get the offensive line up to snuff then we could be very good in 2014. I was never a huge fan of getting Saban if we were going to pay some ridiculous salary.

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"Due to many factors, including Mack's strange last-minute whirlwind tour of recruiting prior to his departure (adding to an atmosphere of uncertainty and confusion, plus taking up visit allowances), Strong faces something of a steep uphill battle in this condensed time frame."

 

 

This problem was all caused by Powers failure to promptly call for Mack's resignation after the Baylor game. It demonstrates further why the hiring and firing of football coaches needs to be removed from the control of university presidents who may have their own personal agendas and aren't knowledgeable about football.

 

I never gave any thought that MB was taking up visits that CS needed. I thought that changed if a new coach was to come to Texas. I don't know as much about recruiting as I thought I did. My friends y'all have a great day

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Put yourself in Powers' position and see where you'd stand on such.

 

Or..., put yourself in the BMD's position.

 

You give mountains of money to the program, and watch Powers & Nero Dodds fiddle while their good buddy swears for four years running he has it "fixed" only to be embarrassed at home and on National TV repeatedly year after year. Not just defeats, but historical defeat margins.

Recruiting success dwindling, and more focus on message control and media blurbs than rolling up sleeves, being a leader, and making hard choices.

The actions at, and leading up to the Banquet, proved Powers had every intention of doing nothing and thereby initiating year five of the ongoing disaster.

 

You might not like how it was done, but unless you were looking forward to more BYU-like experiences in 2014 the actions of the few who had a big enough political/financial stick to get Powers attention finally are the ones I feel a debt of gratitude for.

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When those in authority don't know what they're doing (Powers/Brown) and have been grossly complacent for years (Dodds/Powers/Brown), then someone has to take the reins. Because Mack/Dodds/Powers were entrenched, it took people with immense clout to successfully overturn the status quo. It was more a matter of necessity, than personal ego on the part of the BMDs. Most BMDs would greatly prefer that the program succeed without their having to do the AD's and President's jobs for them.

 

Texas need a change in culture and a momentum boost, and Saban was the obvious first choice for both because he's the most successful coach of the past decade (and arguably of all time).

 

Powers' position is comprimised greatly by the fact that (i) he's dependent on the BMDs for political protection, (ii) he knows little about football at a place where football is a huge part of the culture, and (iii) he allowed his personal feelings for Mack to overrule his duty to the university.

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Or..., put yourself in the BMD's position.

 

You give mountains of money to the program, and watch Powers & Nero Dodds fiddle while their good buddy swears for four years running he has it "fixed" only to be embarrassed at home and on National TV repeatedly year after year. Not just defeats, but historical defeat margins.

Recruiting success dwindling, and more focus on message control and media blurbs than rolling up sleeves, being a leader, and making hard choices.

The actions at, and leading up to the Banquet, proved Powers had every intention of doing nothing and thereby initiating year five of the ongoing disaster.

 

You might not like how it was done, but unless you were looking forward to more BYU-like experiences in 2014 the actions of the few who had a big enough political/financial stick to get Powers attention finally are the ones I feel a debt of gratitude for.

thought I covered the critical fact that I am glad the BMD's got involved. Way too much power in the hands of a content Pres and AD.

My point, though, remains that the BMD's made a mistake (again, assuming reports have been true) in the way they conducted their pursuit of Saban. Had they done things differently, they might have had more compliance/cooperation from Powers.

 

Unfortunately, too though, Mack's political savvy probably perverted the process. In all, it was something of a giant cluster', which is going to happen when you have several power factions not in agreement from the get-go. Mack was going to be tough to remove regardless. You don't want to do anything to make that process more difficult.

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thought I covered the critical fact that I am glad the BMD's got involved. Way too much power in the hands of a content Pres and AD.

My point, though, remains that the BMD's made a mistake (again, assuming reports have been true) in the way they conducted their pursuit of Saban. Had they done things differently, they might have had more compliance/cooperation from Powers.

 

Unfortunately, too though, Mack's political savvy probably perverted the process. In all, it was something of a giant cluster', which is going to happen when you have several power factions not in agreement from the get-go. Mack was going to be tough to remove regardless. You don't want to do anything to make that process more difficult.

 

The "BMDs" are not and have never been a monolith. Tom Hicks' actions with Wallace Hall should in no way taint the many other "BMDs" who finally had the wisdom and the stones to force long overdue change in the UT football program. They are equally entitled to be disappointed that Patterson did not bother to pursue ANY of the tier 1 candidates who had won major conference championships and/or MNCs before hiring Charlie. Charlie may work out fine but Patterson engaged in a very unprofessional search process.

 

As far as the QB search goes, Malzahn just took over a 3-9 0-8 SEC team in 2012 and inherited no QB and went out and got one and won the mighty SEC and almost the MNC in year one. CS will be taking over a team with at least as much talent as Auburn had in 2013 and he will be competing in the Big 12 rather than the SEC. UT should be favored to win every conference game because UT has more talent than any other Big 12 team. Even feckless Mack managed to beat OU last year. It is Charlie's job to solve the QB issue in 2014 as Malzahn did in 2013 and win the weak Big 12 in 2014. Anything less should be a disappointment if Patterson made the right hire.

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I never gave any thought that MB was taking up visits that CS needed. I thought that changed if a new coach was to come to Texas. I don't know as much about recruiting as I thought I did. My friends y'all have a great day

 

He wasn't. I can't think of one instance where Mack used a visit that was later needed by the new staff. I for one am glad that Mack and staff, unlike Mackovic, worked hard right up until the last minute. And the idea that someone like Saban could have, not only held the class together, but brought in several 5*****'s to finish off is pure speculation.

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"Due to many factors, including Mack's strange last-minute whirlwind tour of recruiting prior to his departure (adding to an atmosphere of uncertainty and confusion, plus taking up visit allowances), Strong faces something of a steep uphill battle in this condensed time frame."

 

 

This problem was all caused by Powers failure to promptly call for Mack's resignation after the Baylor game. It demonstrates further why the hiring and firing of football coaches needs to be removed from the control of university presidents who may have their own personal agendas and aren't knowledgeable about football.

 

I'm always amazed at the intelligent fans and alumni of the University that believe the football program is an NFL franchise. It's not. It is of, by and for the academic institution that is the University of Texas. It's purpose is to promote and expand the reputation and prestige of the University. It is also an opportunity for our scholar athletes to experience the life lessons offered by the highest class of athletic competition.

Everyone should read the, long-formulated, official "Goals and Objectives" of the University Athletic Department. It's a page and a half and not once does it use the word "win."

Fortunately for us fans, our long standing reputation as a university of the first class and our spotless reputation as an institution of integrity, we've always attracted the kind of student and athlete that translates to success on the scoreboard.

I for one am glad that is the way we conduct our business, whether it's in the classroom or on the field. Go here to read Goals & Objectives:

 

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/tex/genrel/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/12-acad-serv-studentath-manual.pdf

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An interesting discussion. . .I don't agree with some of it. . 1st. ..class was actually very solid. . .not great but loaded with football players. . .we got unlucky with the RB that had the neck issue but it is loaded with football players. . .

 

None of the big names were coming. . .of the tier 2 guys . .I was on Charlie's bandwagon for years. . .and now that he's here. . .I like him even better. . .would have liked a big time OC but Wickline the RB coach and Rumph are HOME RUNS. . .would have kept Wyatt over Chambers but don't get a vote and Wyatt will be gone soon anywya. .he's really good. .

 

Did you really think we were going to switch coaches and not lose some recruits? NO offense (ok that's a lie) but did you just start following CFB yesterday? And frankly. . I flat LOVE some of the kids CS is bringing in. .the JUCO TE and the NO OT . ..love those pickups. . .looks like we have some bad azzed DL's inbound (fingers crossed) too . .

 

Oh. . .another thing. . .you aren't going to hire a defensive coach (Strong, Mora, Mason, Saban) and run an Art Briles nintendo offense. . .nor do you want to. ..I don't play video football anyway so I never cared about that anyway. . .tell me who wins the games. . . .I don't care if we run 80 QB sneaks a game if that is what gets us to the playoffs. . .

 

And yes. . .scream apologists all you wish . ..Mack's gone let it go. . .OK, bitching about QBs is legit but Mack left the cupboard far far better stocked than he found it. . ..

 

Hey. . it's just me but I'm going to enjoy the next 5 years. . .

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An interesting discussion. . .I don't agree with some of it. . 1st. ..class was actually very solid. . .not great but loaded with football players. . .we got unlucky with the RB that had the neck issue but it is loaded with football players. . .

 

None of the big names were coming. . .of the tier 2 guys . .I was on Charlie's bandwagon for years. . .and now that he's here. . .I like him even better. . .would have liked a big time OC but Wickline the RB coach and Rumph are HOME RUNS. . .would have kept Wyatt over Chambers but don't get a vote and Wyatt will be gone soon anywya. .he's really good. .

 

Did you really think we were going to switch coaches and not lose some recruits? NO offense (ok that's a lie) but did you just start following CFB yesterday? And frankly. . I flat LOVE some of the kids CS is bringing in. .the JUCO TE and the NO OT . ..love those pickups. . .looks like we have some bad azzed DL's inbound (fingers crossed) too . .

 

Oh. . .another thing. . .you aren't going to hire a defensive coach (Strong, Mora, Mason, Saban) and run an Art Briles nintendo offense. . .nor do you want to. ..I don't play video football anyway so I never cared about that anyway. . .tell me who wins the games. . . .I don't care if we run 80 QB sneaks a game if that is what gets us to the playoffs. . .

 

And yes. . .scream apologists all you wish . ..Mack's gone let it go. . .OK, bitching about QBs is legit but Mack left the cupboard far far better stocked than he found it. . ..

 

Hey. . it's just me but I'm going to enjoy the next 5 years. . .

 

Yes what he said...

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The "BMDs" are not and have never been a monolith. Tom Hicks' actions with Wallace Hall should in no way taint the many other "BMDs" who finally had the wisdom and the stones to force long overdue change in the UT football program. They are equally entitled to be disappointed that Patterson did not bother to pursue ANY of the tier 1 candidates who had won major conference championships and/or MNCs before hiring Charlie. Charlie may work out fine but Patterson engaged in a very unprofessional search process.

 

As far as the QB search goes, Malzahn just took over a 3-9 0-8 SEC team in 2012 and inherited no QB and went out and got one and won the mighty SEC and almost the MNC in year one. CS will be taking over a team with at least as much talent as Auburn had in 2013 and he will be competing in the Big 12 rather than the SEC. UT should be favored to win every conference game because UT has more talent than any other Big 12 team. Even feckless Mack managed to beat OU last year. It is Charlie's job to solve the QB issue in 2014 as Malzahn did in 2013 and win the weak Big 12 in 2014. Anything less should be a disappointment if Patterson made the right hire.

and my point remains--the fact that Powers' authority was ignored regarding Saban undoubtedly played a significant role in adding to his distaste probably induced greatly by Mack toward a Nick Saban hire.

 

Whether other candidates were dying to come to Texas is largely an unknown, and I doubt any of us know enough about the details to be confident in making such an assessment of who Patterson did or didn't vet.

 

One thing is without debate: all the supposed inside expertise on many matters, from the AD to the HC, ended up missing the boat. I'm one who recognize they stated what was known at the time, but the fact that so many things didn't pan out provides a hint that said inside info wasn't as objective as we'd like to have believed.

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every since the press conference I am a Strong supporter and all in... so get all in or get out of the way

 

Maybe we should create a sticky thread where Dobbs can advise us all at which point in time we need to set aside our critical thinking skills and fall in line with his officially approved views.

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