Basketball News/Recruiting Thread

[BWilk55]

7 hours ago, Sirhornsalot said:

But you do know, by the fact that he quoted scripture, that he wasn't saying anything racial. 

LOL, I think you nailed it with the contract thing. After being in the final four not long ago, this year must have really given them fits. lol

 

I think you are underestimating the ability of sinful men to misinterpret and misapply scripture. How do you explain the use of this verse to justify Chattel Slavery in America - certainly a racial and sinful practice?

[Sirhornsalot]

35 minutes ago, BWilk55 said:

I think you are underestimating the ability of sinful men to misinterpret and misapply scripture. How do you explain the use of this verse to justify Chattel Slavery in America - certainly a racial and sinful practice?

I don't think it was used to justify slavery in America. Players, in some ways, are slaves to their task master. They do what they are told without being paid for it. The big return is good coaching creates a better player. And that is the agreement going in. 

The spirit of the biblical message is an honest day's pay for an honest days work. Do right by your employer and your employee.

When sinful men "misinterpret and misapply" scripture, those who know scripture call the person out. We are called to correct others in scripture, when necessary.

Now, let's get back to Texas basketball news. I could care less what Tech does. 

 

[83Dee]

17 hours ago, BWilk55 said:

I think you are underestimating the ability of sinful men to misinterpret and misapply scripture. How do you explain the use of this verse to justify Chattel Slavery in America - certainly a racial and sinful practice?

I think the point that SHA is making (not to speak for him), is that even if Scripture has been misapplied in the past… the Scripture is not at fault.  Are you suggesting that any Scripture abused in history is now off-limits to reference?  I don’t think you are, but if you follow that thinking to it's logical conclusion, this is where you arrive.

I believe what you are saying is that it was insensitive to use the words, “slave” and “master” to make a point with a black person under your authority as his coach… even if you are quoting a Bible verse?  You certainly can make a good case for this. However, it’s a shame that we are now at a point in America, where we no longer seem to care what’s in a persons heart… But only that they fall in line with woke speech regulations. 

[DBut82]

8 hours ago, 83Dee said:

I think the point that SHA is making (not to speak for him), is that even if Scripture has been misapplied in the past… It’s not the fault of Scripture.  Are you suggesting that any Scripture that has been misapplied is now off-limits to reference?  I don’t think you are, but if you follow your point to its logical conclusion, that is where you arrive.

I believe what you are saying is that it was insensitive to use the words, “slave” and “master” to make a point with a black person that is under your authority as his coach… even if you are quoting a Bible verse?  You certainly can make a good case for this. However, it’s a shame that we are now at a point in America, where we no longer seem to care what’s in a persons heart… But only that they fall in line with woke speech regulations. 

I won't speak for BWilk55 but my earlier point was this: he quoted scripture. Was the scripture itself "racially insensitive"? NO! But without knowing exactly what the coach said to explain the quoted scripture we have no idea if what was said was in fact racially insensitive. Example: every Sunday morning we run to church. At church the pastor will quote a verse. After quoting scripture, the pastor will proceed to interpret and explain the passage quoted. At this point, we are at the mercy of the pastor that his interpretation is pure and true and to the essence and intent of the scripture. The same applies here or whenever anyone quotes scripture. Then take into account that these same scriptures have been misinterpreted and misused to justify many evils; including slavery...again, do I think it was the coaches intent to be "racially insensitive"? I'll go out on a limb and say no and that he wasn't at all. What I do think is Tech wants out of a contract and this could probably be twisted into a way to get out. But like SHA said, let's get back to basketball. Who cares what Tech does

[83Dee]

44 minutes ago, DBut82 said:

I won't speak for BWilk55 but my earlier point was this: he quoted scripture. Was the scripture itself "racially insensitive"? NO! But without knowing exactly what the coach said to explain the quoted scripture we have no idea if what was said was in fact racially insensitive. Example: every Sunday morning we run to church. At church the pastor will quote a verse. After quoting scripture, the pastor will proceed to interpret and explain the passage quoted. At this point, we are at the mercy of the pastor that his interpretation is pure and true and to the essence and intent of the scripture. The same applies here or whenever anyone quotes scripture. Then take into account that these same scriptures have been misinterpreted and misused to justify many evils; including slavery...again, do I think it was the coaches intent to be "racially insensitive"? I'll go out on a limb and say no and that he wasn't at all. What I do think is Tech wants out of a contract and this could probably be twisted into a way to get out. But like SHA said, let's get back to basketball. Who cares what Tech does

Well said.  I enjoyed the discussion and appreciate that no one threatened to lock the thread.  It was.... semi-basketball related, as we were discussing whether or not a coach was reprimanded justly.  The various opinions were interesting.   

 

Here's a basketball thought.  When Hunter plays well, this team is final four good.  When he doesn't it looks more like a two and BBQ.  

[Baron]

To say anything to a young black man about slavery, regardless of intent, wasn't thought through very well. Unless of course it is in a historical context.

[david ficken]

Rice is the 6th man of the year in the big12 and Carr was on the 1st team

[BWilk55]

19 hours ago, Sirhornsalot said:

1. I don't think it was used to justify slavery in America. Players, in some ways, are slaves to their task master. They do what they are told without being paid for it. The big return is good coaching creates a better player. And that is the agreement going in. 

The spirit of the biblical message is an honest day's pay for an honest days work. Do right by your employer and your employee.

2. When sinful men "misinterpret and misapply" scripture, those who know scripture call the person out. We are called to correct others in scripture, when necessary.

 

11 hours ago, 83Dee said:

I think the point that SHA is making (not to speak for him), is that even if Scripture has been misapplied in the past… 3. the Scripture is not at fault.  Are you suggesting that any Scripture abused in history is now off-limits to reference?  I don’t think you are, but if you follow that thinking to it's logical conclusion, this is where you arrive.

I believe what you are saying is that it was insensitive to use the words, “slave” and “master” to make a point with a black person under your authority as his coach… even if you are quoting a Bible verse?  You certainly can make a good case for this. 4. However, it’s a shame that we are now at a point in America, where we no longer seem to care what’s in a persons heart… But only that they fall in line with woke speech regulations. 

1. Here is an article on the topic of this verse, and the bible in general being falsely used to justify slavery. https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

2. In the case of Mark Adams, it seems he is misapplying or abusing this scripture as a way to demand obedience from his players. He is being called out, as you say, for this abuse of scripture.

3. I am not blaming the scripture, I believe it is infallible, all useful for teaching and edification of believers. I am saying this verse has been abused. I am not saying it is now off-limits. I just heard a great sermon on these verses and the book of Philemon. Importantly, the pastor took time to explain the context of slavery the verses were referring to. 

4. We of course can't judge what is in Mark Adams heart but if he is viewing himself as master and his players as his slaves (regardless of anyones race), that may be an indication of how he feels in his heart. That is not a loving coach/player relationship. 

We don't have to belabor the point here but I do want to respond where I feel I am being misunderstood. Happy to further the discussion in private messages as well.

[Sirhornsalot]

1 hour ago, BWilk55 said:

 

1. Here is an article on the topic of this verse, and the bible in general being falsely used to justify slavery. https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

2. In the case of Mark Adams, it seems he is misapplying or abusing this scripture as a way to demand obedience from his players. He is being called out, as you say, for this abuse of scripture.

3. I am not blaming the scripture, I believe it is infallible, all useful for teaching and edification of believers. I am saying this verse has been abused. I am not saying it is now off-limits. I just heard a great sermon on these verses and the book of Philemon. Importantly, the pastor took time to explain the context of slavery the verses were referring to. 

4. We of course can't judge what is in Mark Adams heart but if he is viewing himself as master and his players as his slaves (regardless of anyones race), that may be an indication of how he feels in his heart. That is not a loving coach/player relationship. 

We don't have to belabor the point here but I do want to respond where I feel I am being misunderstood. Happy to further the discussion in private messages as well.

What is wrong with demanding obedience from your players, exactly?

They're obedient to the head coach in all things of that sport. Just as a teacher demands obedience in the classroom.

I stopped there. This woke stuff is utter nonsense.

 

[Coot]

Hey!! If Mark Adams is let go, Chris Beard can return to Tech!! The universe is unfolding as it should.

[BWilk55]

1 hour ago, Sirhornsalot said:

What is wrong with demanding obedience from your players, exactly?

They're obedient to the head coach in all things of that sport. Just as a teacher demands obedience in the classroom.

I stopped there. This woke stuff is utter nonsense.

 

Demanding obedience, fine. Using a slavery analogy, not so fine. 

And if thinking it's not okay to tell young black men to be slave-like is woke, then I guess I am woke. 

[DBut82]

11 hours ago, BWilk55 said:

Demanding obedience, fine. Using a slavery analogy, not so fine. 

And if thinking it's not okay to tell young black men to be slave-like is woke, then I guess I am woke. 

^^^THIS^^^

[Sirhornsalot]

16 hours ago, BWilk55 said:

Demanding obedience, fine. Using a slavery analogy, not so fine. 

And if thinking it's not okay to tell young black men to be slave-like is woke, then I guess I am woke. 

Why do you single out black men? Why not the Jews? Or the Irish? Not one single black man living in America today has spent one minute as a slave. And not one white man in America has spent one minute owning a slave. You're tossing around racism and victimhood on people who have no need for it outside of your misapplication.

And what do you do with the white players on Tech's team? Are you literally assuming the coach doesn't speak to them? Or do we exclude that to help your point?

But let's be serious – neither you nor I believe for a second the coach literally said to be "slave-like." You literally made that up. All you and I know is he quoted scripture, which doesn't tell ANYONE to be slave-like.

 

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

35 minutes ago, Sirhornsalot said:

Why do you single out black men? Why not the Jews? Or the Irish? Not one single black man living in America today has spent one minute as a slave. And not one white man in America has spent one minute owning a slave. You're tossing around racism and victimhood on people who have no need for it outside of your misapplication.

And what do you do with the white players on Tech's team? Are you literally assuming the coach doesn't speak to them? Or do we exclude that to help your point?

But let's be serious – neither you nor I believe for a second the coach literally said to be "slave-like." You literally made that up. All you and I know is he quoted scripture, which doesn't tell ANYONE to be slave-like.

 

 

https://texastech.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster

Which one of these white guys are you referring to?  

Simply put, if you're in a position of authority using a Master/slave reference to get obedience is probably not the best way to go.

[Eastexhorn]

1 hour ago, Big Daddy Cane said:

https://texastech.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster

Which one of these white guys are you referring to?  

Simply put, if you're in a position of authority using a Master/slave reference to get obedience is probably not the best way to go.

And having wild sex with your girl friend is not the way either.

[Sirhornsalot]

1 hour ago, Eastexhorn said:

And having wild sex with your girl friend is not the way either.

I've always thought that was a pretty good thing myself. lol

 

[david ficken]

Okie Lite and West Virginia both won the opening round games.

We get Okie Lite believe at 6:00PM and Kansas gets West Virginia.

[Sunkist]

Texas must win tonight to lock up a 2 seed in the NCAA tournament.  Hook ‘em!

[Sirhornsalot]

21 hours ago, Big Daddy Cane said:

https://texastech.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster

Which one of these white guys are you referring to?  

Simply put, if you're in a position of authority using a Master/slave reference to get obedience is probably not the best way to go.

I would agree, but that's not what we know. Once again, ALL WE KNOW is he used scripture. If you're going to find something wrong with that message, then the discussion is over.

Why do we keep using our own personal assumption about what he said? You're defeating a point you don't even know exists.

More than half that team is at least half-white. I suppose being half-white, and the product of an obvious non-racist relationship, might be a good thing. But no, we simply MUST make them out to be offended. The coach CHOSE those players, I suppose because he's so damned racist. lol

This subject is worthy of a quick and immediate death. The discussion does not seem to improve.

 

[83Dee]

2 hours ago, Sirhornsalot said:

I would agree, but that's not what we know. Once again, ALL WE KNOW is he used scripture. If you're going to find something wrong with that message, then the discussion is over.

Why do we keep using our own personal assumption about what he said? You're defeating a point you don't even know exists.

More than half that team is at least half-white. I suppose being half-white, and the product of an obvious non-racist relationship, might be a good thing. But no, we simply MUST make them out to be offended. The coach CHOSE those players, I suppose because he's so damned racist. lol

This subject is worthy of a quick and immediate death. The discussion does not seem to improve.

 

I'm going to throw something crazy out.... so crazy that it might just work.  Here's my outside of the box idea... What if said player (or players) offended by the referencing of a Scripture - in light of their ethnicity, approached the coach - one on one, and explained why he found the comment offensive?  Might this have been resolved?  Might players and coach see eye to eye - and perhaps both learn from the incident?  Maybe it still escalates to the AD's office.... but maybe not.  My guess is players and coach come out of this closer than they were prior.    

 

In all fairness, maybe it did go down that way.... I just don't know.   

 

I actually think that DBut82 may have hit the nail on the head.  This gave the AD a good reason to get rid of a coach whose program appears to be trending in the wrong direction.  Cancel culture can be expedient in that way.  

[83Dee]

2 hours ago, Sunkist said:

Texas must win tonight to lock up a 2 seed in the NCAA tournament.  Hook ‘em!

My guess is they are a 2 seed even if they lose.  But, I agree that a win locks it up.  

What do you think of the idea, that for Big Dance success, the ideal is to win one and they lose the second game of the conference tournament - in order to have fresh legs?  

Personally, if there's merit to that, then I would go for game 1, and give starters a lot of bench time during the rest of the tournament - while still trying to win.  

[david ficken]

So, Allen isn't playing tonight due to some lower leg injury.  

Terry won the sporting news national coach of the year award.

[Sirhornsalot]

Texas up on OSU, 10-8 early. Hunter looks like he came in hot.

[david ficken]

At the half Texas is up 9 on Okie Lite 35-26. Morris is leading in scoring with 10 points. 

[Sunkist]

Morris def seems underutilized…