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I agree that Black Lives Matter, but in a larger context, who will disagree with me when I say that All Lives Matter?   Because I am not black, but a different race, does my life matter less? Mar

WTF Virtue signaling is getting out of hand. I hope we don’t cave-in to it.

Primal Defense, I can’t say I am offended. I know that I am intelligent.  I am somewhat disappointed in your approach.  If they wanted to say Black Lives Matter, Too!, then that’s what they shoul

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11 hours ago, Baron said:

I don't have an issue with all but 2 of their demands as I understand it. The "Eyes of Texas" thing has me, for lack of a better term, freaked out. By saying they don't understand, I mean that they can't comprehend what was in the mind of the people or person who wrote and promoted "The Eyes Of Texas" 100 years ago. I'll ask the question again, were Earl and Vince upset or uneasy because they were required to sing the song? If not, what has changed since then? And why didn't they speak out? They were legends and respected among most Texas fans

We don’t know if Earl & VY were upset or uneasy singing it. I ask if they were will that then mean it should be changed in your mind? If they came out now and said they hated singing it and want it change & then you say well doesn’t matter still doesn’t need to be changed. Sounds like you were trying to use them as a see this black player doesn’t mind argument. As for what has changed, since then.. I don’t know maybe read the news or watch the news. Times change. At one point in the military, gay & lesbian people didn’t speak out about don’t ask, don’t tell. Now that has changed. There was a time when women were assaulted & harassed at work & didn’t say anything. Should we call up those women & ask how they felt. If they didn’t have problems, does that mean assault today is ok? Man the fact that some people just think about themselves & their feelings when it’s in their face the injustices people are facing. It’s sad. 

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Primal Defense, I can’t say I am offended. I know that I am intelligent.  I am somewhat disappointed in your approach. 

If they wanted to say Black Lives Matter, Too!, then that’s what they should have said. 

As a woman, I was discriminated against in the workplace twice. I realized that I could become bitter, cynical, and become like the people that I loathed, or that I could take the experience, learn from it, and use that energy to become a better person. 

I chose the latter, and do not regret it. 


 


 

 

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7 minutes ago, java said:

Primal Defense, I can’t say I am offended. I know that I am intelligent.  I am somewhat disappointed in your approach. 

If they wanted to say Black Lives Matter, Too!, then that’s what they should have said. 

As a woman, I was discriminated against in the workplace twice. I realized that I could become bitter, cynical, and become like the people that I loathed, or that I could take the experience, learn from it, and use that energy to become a better person. 

I chose the latter, and do not regret it. 


 


 

 

Lol people trip over themselves. They should have said Black Lives Matter Too? Yet the attack is always All Lives Matter which would imply that they are saying Only Black Lives Matter. You’re subscribing that to the movement when it was never said.  
 

I am truly sorry you were discriminated against twice in the work place. I’m black. I’ve been discriminated against more times than I can count. I have to worry about how I look at a person for fear they will look at me as a threat. I’ve been out on 6th St and had a white guy point at me and pretend to lynch himself. These players probably deal with racism as well on campus. We are witnessing black people killed constantly for being black. Sorry but what am I to learn & become a better person from? Is my degree from a great university not enough? What should the players & me learn & become better from when we see a black man killed? Or a black woman killed in her own home? Please do tell. I would like to know what WE need to learn.

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39 minutes ago, hornsups said:

We don’t know if Earl & VY were upset or uneasy singing it. I ask if they were will that then mean it should be changed in your mind? If they came out now and said they hated singing it and want it change & then you say well doesn’t matter still doesn’t need to be changed. Sounds like you were trying to use them as a see this black player doesn’t mind argument. As for what has changed, since then.. I don’t know maybe read the news or watch the news. Times change. At one point in the military, gay & lesbian people didn’t speak out about don’t ask, don’t tell. Now that has changed. There was a time when women were assaulted & harassed at work & didn’t say anything. Should we call up those women & ask how they felt. If they didn’t have problems, does that mean assault today is ok? Man the fact that some people just think about themselves & their feelings when it’s in their face the injustices people are facing. It’s sad. 

Here are some responses

I would say that if Earl and/or Vince came out now and said they hated singing the song their motive would be suspect, for the simple reason of why didn't they speak up earlier. Most of the players, past and present, probably didn't have a clue about the origin of the melody until someone told them and only then did it become offensive. 

As for your snarky comment about watching the news, I wish I didn't. Maybe my blood pressure would go down. I've been around a while so the history thing I've got in my back pocket. The military did not fundamentally change to allow freedom to gays and lesbians. A simple rule was changed. The "Eyes" is not a simple rule.

It's not just about me. I'm not the only one worried about the "Eyes of Texas".

Ya'll have everybody's attention. Don't browbeat us. It's counter productive.

I wish I was as eloquent as Java, but that's not my nature. So you'll just have to live with my bluntness.

 

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16 minutes ago, hornsups said:

Lol people trip over themselves. They should have said Black Lives Matter Too? Yet the attack is always All Lives Matter which would imply that they are saying Only Black Lives Matter. You’re subscribing that to the movement when it was never said.  
 

I am truly sorry you were discriminated against twice in the work place. I’m black. I’ve been discriminated against more times than I can count. I have to worry about how I look at a person for fear they will look at me as a threat. I’ve been out on 6th St and had a white guy point at me and pretend to lynch himself. These players probably deal with racism as well on campus. We are witnessing black people killed constantly for being black. Sorry but what am I to learn & become a better person from? Is my degree from a great university not enough? What should the players & me learn & become better from when we see a black man killed? Or a black woman killed in her own home? Please do tell. I would like to know what WE need to learn.

At some point it becomes a battle over symbols, which is an unnecessary struggle. Simply acknowledging Black Lives Matter, without the reductive approach of 'All Lives Matter', doesn't mean one is ignoring the rest of the world population. As a movement it symbolizes certain things that need to be understood and addressed. Trying to attack it somehow is a divisive approach which isn't helpful. 

Likewise, I never felt the American flag was something that needed to be pulled into this battle. I understand why it happened, but if the overall goal was to bring awareness and cause change then other approaches would've worked better. NFL players have amazing power in society to get awareness to anything - they could have formed marches, or summits, or commercials. Doing that without attacking a symbol that means so much to other people would've created a consensus without the division. 

Btw, these are basic principles from How to Win Friends and Influence People. I'm not plowing new ground here. Other groups already have their areas. 

I support Black Lives Matter

I also Back the Blue

I salute and respect the American flag

For some reason right now a situation has been created where in public you can only pick one of the three... it blows people's minds otherwise. Just that alone makes it so incredibly difficult to find common ground to move forward. 

We have to get past that. I don't know to get there from here, but it partly involves the letting the intense emotion out there right now to subside. 

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11 minutes ago, Baron said:

Here are some responses

I would say that if Earl and/or Vince came out now and said they hated singing the song their motive would be suspect, for the simple reason of why didn't they speak up earlier. Most of the players, past and present, probably didn't have a clue about the origin of the melody until someone told them and only then did it become offensive. 

As for your snarky comment about watching the news, I wish I didn't. Maybe my blood pressure would go down. I've been around a while so the history thing I've got in my back pocket. The military did not fundamentally change to allow freedom to gays and lesbians. A simple rule was changed. The "Eyes" is not a simple rule.

It's not just about me. I'm not the only one worried about the "Eyes of Texas".

Ya'll have everybody's attention. Don't browbeat us. It's counter productive.

I wish I was as eloquent as Java, but that's not my nature. So you'll just have to live with my bluntness.

 

So you’re now saying them coming out against it would be suspect because they didn’t speak up at the time? Interesting. I mean if a woman didn’t come forward with a sexual assault claim at the time, should we just question her motives? The military and country have fundamentally changed on gay rights. The Eyes being changed would do what exactly?? Would it lessen the university in any meaningful way? You’re bluntness doesn’t affect me in anyway. I’m sure you’re not the only one worried about The Eyes but those players aren’t the only one me worried about things mentioned in the letter. And who is “y’all” that’s gotten your attention? 

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2 minutes ago, hornsups said:

So you’re now saying them coming out against it would be suspect because they didn’t speak up at the time? Interesting. I mean if a woman didn’t come forward with a sexual assault claim at the time, should we just question her motives? The military and country have fundamentally changed on gay rights. The Eyes being changed would do what exactly?? Would it lessen the university in any meaningful way? You’re bluntness doesn’t affect me in anyway. I’m sure you’re not the only one worried about The Eyes but those players aren’t the only one me worried about things mentioned in the letter. And who is “y’all” that’s gotten your attention? 

Here we go. By saying ya'll I meant everyone who is protesting. No nefarious intent in my meaning, but you are willing to put it there. That is a problem.

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Just now, Baron said:

Here we go. By saying ya'll I meant everyone who is protesting. No nefarious intent in my meaning, but you are willing to put it there. That is a problem.

Yeah but I’m not protesting so why would you say y’all?? That’s what I was wanting to know. The fact that you took it as nefarious or underhanded is on you. I don’t lump people into groups. So who’s putting intent on someone’s words?? Sounds like you are the one who put intent on my words. That’s the problem. 

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3 minutes ago, hornsups said:

Yeah but I’m not protesting so why would you say y’all?? That’s what I was wanting to know. The fact that you took it as nefarious or underhanded is on you. I don’t lump people into groups. So who’s putting intent on someone’s words?? Sounds like you are the one who put intent on my words. That’s the problem. 

Really? Your not protesting? What are you doing with your keyboard? I'm out. I'm done with this nonsense.

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22 minutes ago, Baron said:

Really? Your not protesting? What are you doing with your keyboard? I'm out. I'm done with this nonsense.

Hahaha I’m speaking my mind. That’s what I call it. You’re calling it protesting because you think someone sharing their feelings on something you don’t like is protesting. That’s ok you. The only nonsense is the crap you’re speaking. Would say I hate to see ya go but, I don’t lie. 

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hornsup, I am so very sorry that you or anyone else was now or ever treated that way. It is inexcusable. 

I detest:  racism;  violence; the persuasive who prey on the fears of others to create violence; irrational arguments presented as logic, much like a sales tool.

I watched the George Floyd video multiple times, and I could never see what happened, but I could hear him say I can’t breathe.  That it went on for 9 minutes is unbelievable.

I thought a chokehold was done with the arm, but clearly I am wrong because this officer was kneeling on his neck.  
 

Since Mr. Floyd’s death, others have died during riots, a woman in Dallas was shot and killed getting out of her car in her driveway.  I fail to see how any of this is justified or makes anything better.  
 

The insanity continues:  Congress now sees a need to legislate local police departments.  What about the ones doing good jobs with good community relations?

Minneapolis is considering community based policing.  So, no one would be in charge or accountable?  Really.  When that’s a disaster, do the feds take over?  Great.  The Postal Service is policing Minneapolis.

If you care how I feel about racism, I will tell you two things.  As many of you know, I teach in a smaller East Texas community  .Every year someone in each class must show someone else how tough they are by making a racist comment.  The first time someone does it, if rather mild, I call the parents, and ask for the student to apologize in class the next day  That is the only warning the class gets  

From that point on, anyone who makes a comment that is racist or sexist, is written up and sent to the AP’s office  I consider it bullying  I have a 2 page essay about racism that they can copy in their handwriting in after school detention on racism and civil rights.  
 

If they are an athlete, I volunteer to call coach for them  It is a strong deterrent.

   

   

 

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14 minutes ago, java said:

hornsup, I am so very sorry that you or anyone else was now or ever treated that way. It is inexcusable. 

I detest:  racism;  violence; the persuasive who prey on the fears of others to create violence; irrational arguments presented as logic, much like a sales tool.

I watched the George Floyd video multiple times, and I could never see what happened, but I could hear him say I can’t breathe.  That it went on for 9 minutes is unbelievable.

I thought a chokehold was done with the arm, but clearly I am wrong because this officer was kneeling on his neck.  
 

Since Mr. Floyd’s death, others have died during riots, a woman in Dallas was shot and killed getting out of her car in her driveway.  I fail to see how any of this is justified or makes anything better.  
 

The insanity continues:  Congress now sees a need to legislate local police departments.  What about the ones doing good jobs with good community relations?

Minneapolis is considering community based policing.  So, no one would be in charge or accountable?  Really.  When that’s a disaster, do the feds take over?  Great.  The Postal Service is policing Minneapolis.

If you care how I feel about racism, I will tell you two things.  As many of you know, I teach in a smaller East Texas community  .Every year someone in each class must show someone else how tough they are by making a racist comment.  The first time someone does it, if rather mild, I call the parents, and ask for the student to apologize in class the next day  That is the only warning the class gets  

From that point on, anyone who makes a comment that is racist or sexist, is written up and sent to the AP’s office  I consider it bullying  I have a 2 page essay about racism that they can copy in their handwriting in after school detention on racism and civil rights.  
 

If they are an athlete, I volunteer to call coach for them  It is a strong deterrent.

   

   

 

I appreciate your feelings. As far as the legislating the police. It’s needed in a way. Why do we need cops using chokeholds? Why not have mental health professionals tag along when officers are answering calls dealing with mentally ill people? Looking at all the things cops have at their disposal, why do they need military weaponry? You’re a teacher, I believe some of those  funds spent on unnecessary weapons needs to be reallocated to teachers, after school programs, community outreach, etc. And police need to be trained on deescalation more. Maybe some work on implicit bias that seems to be running through departments. We can’t see what happened in Minneapolis & all around the country and just think policing as it current can work. Because if nothing changes, we know we will be right back here in a month or so when the police kill another person. 

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We need more teachers, desperately. I cannot tell you how different school is now.

I was very lucky last year. My kids parents, for the most part, were great. Many of my parents, would email me about any class to find out what to do during COVID because I worked so closely with them to help their kids get through the virtual school. 

We provided internet to kids who didn’t have it, and paper copies to kids that preferred paper. 

Teachers do need to get paid more, but we also need more support in the form of behaviorists, trained instructional aides where needed, and for large classes, co-teachers. 

Students need much more one on one instruction than they used to. It could be their diet, their home environment, or just the distractions they deal with daily. 


 

 

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4 hours ago, java said:

Primal Defense, I can’t say I am offended. I know that I am intelligent.  I am somewhat disappointed in your approach. 

If they wanted to say Black Lives Matter, Too!, then that’s what they should have said. 

As a woman, I was discriminated against in the workplace twice. I realized that I could become bitter, cynical, and become like the people that I loathed, or that I could take the experience, learn from it, and use that energy to become a better person. 

I chose the latter, and do not regret it. 


 


 

 

That's good that you became a better person by being mistreated by your former employees.  However, It sounds like that's your advice for the UT football players. You insult them in a previous post by saying that their complaining because they're bored. Not a mention of George Floyd. 
 
Unfortunately George Floyd, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner, etc can't take the energy from being mistreated and become better people and the UT players are doing their best to change that. 
 
 

The list of requested changes were applauded by some black Texas former student-athletes on social media, including former Longhorns' defensive lineman Sam Acho, who posted on Twitter:

"Young heroes!!! I am SO SOOO PROUD of you. I have never been more proud of the Student Athletes at this University. Now it’s time for the Board of Regents, President and Athletic Director to follow suit. These changes can easily be made. Do not hide behind “tradition”. Your move"

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3 hours ago, Baron said:

Here are some responses

I would say that if Earl and/or Vince came out now and said they hated singing the song their motive would be suspect, for the simple reason of why didn't they speak up earlier. Most of the players, past and present, probably didn't have a clue about the origin of the melody until someone told them and only then did it become offensive. 

 

 

 

Ok.  Let's say you're right that current and former players were ignorant of the origins of the melody.  Once they've been educated about it's origins, do we discount their feelings about it?  Personally, I think they're a lot smarter than that.  Let's see how far this thing goes.

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Whats hilarious about this is that there seems to be no names for building or statues because something about the past was tarnished in either a direct way or indirect way.

I challenge any of you to name one person either living right now or 250 years ago (or somewhere in between) who has no tarnish of some kind.

So let's name the buildings Building A, B, C or whatever because human beings just don't measure up.

I think about the Apostle Paul from the New Testament. Paul was the new name for Saul, who was a higher up in the Jewish religious hierarchy. He spent his time pursuing Christians, persecuting them, murdering them, torturing and inprisoning them. This is not a guy you or I would select to carry on our message. But Jesus Christ did.

The point is, there was only one who was perfect and no one else. Everyone else has tarnish of some kind. But as Paul showed the world, people can and do change. If we don't reward that change, then where is the incentive TO change? 

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19 minutes ago, Sirhornsalot said:

Whats hilarious about this is that there seems to be no names for building or statues because something about the past was tarnished in either a direct way or indirect way.

I challenge any of you to name one person either living right now or 250 years ago (or somewhere in between) who has no tarnish of some kind.

So let's name the buildings Building A, B, C or whatever because human beings just don't measure up.

I think about the Apostle Paul from the New Testament. Paul was the new name for Saul, who was a higher up in the Jewish religious hierarchy. He spent his time pursuing Christians, persecuting them, murdering them, torturing and inprisoning them. This is not a guy you or I would select to carry on our message. But Jesus Christ did.

The point is, there was only one who was perfect and no one else. Everyone else has tarnish of some kind. But as Paul showed the world, people can and do change. If we don't reward that change, then where is the incentive TO change? 

So, what your saying is that I have a chance to a statue or hall named after me.:)

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15 minutes ago, Sirhornsalot said:

Whats hilarious about this is that there seems to be no names for building or statues because something about the past was tarnished in either a direct way or indirect way.

I challenge any of you to name one person either living right now or 250 years ago (or somewhere in between) who has no tarnish of some kind.

So let's name the buildings Building A, B, C or whatever because human beings just don't measure up.

I think about the Apostle Paul from the New Testament. Paul was the new name for Saul, who was a higher up in the Jewish religious hierarchy. He spent his time pursuing Christians, persecuting them, murdering them, torturing and inprisoning them. This is not a guy you or I would select to carry on our message. But Jesus Christ did.

The point is, there was only one who was perfect and no one else. Everyone else has tarnish of some kind. But as Paul showed the world, people can and do change. If we don't reward that change, then where is the incentive TO change? 

That’s all fine and well. But these people are dead. We don’t know if they changed. So how about we just remove their names & statues. No one is perfect but not everyone is a racist who fought to keep people enslaved & oppressed. I’m sure we can find some people who aren’t racists to name buildings after. 
 

As for naming someone, I mean I don’t know any thing that tarnished Mother Theresa. I guess I could be wrong. There have been a few popes in that time. I guess you think they all have something that tarnishes them. You bring up the Bible.. I guess every priest, rabbi, clergyman are all tarnished. They should hang up the cloth I guess because they are being put on the same page as these people who were racists. 

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11 minutes ago, hornsups said:

That’s all fine and well. But these people are dead. We don’t know if they changed. So how about we just remove their names & statues. No one is perfect but not everyone is a racist who fought to keep people enslaved & oppressed. I’m sure we can find some people who aren’t racists to name buildings after. 
 

As for naming someone, I mean I don’t know any thing that tarnished Mother Theresa. I guess I could be wrong. There have been a few popes in that time. I guess you think they all have something that tarnishes them. You bring up the Bible.. I guess every priest, rabbi, clergyman are all tarnished. They should hang up the cloth I guess because they are being put on the same page as these people who were racists. 

Sure we know if they changed. History teaches us this.

The Civil War wasn't just about slaves. You read that right. It was a cluster of issues, along with slavery, that brought the south to secede. As you can see, we have the history. Thats not the problem. Teaching, reading and retaining the history is our biggest problem.

Okay, you find someone who wasn't a racist. Are they sexual predators? Did they beat their wife? Did they kick puppies? I mean, come on. The list just goes on and on because that's who we are – imperfect beings.

Nuns and popes aren't perfect. So yes, you were wrong. Yes, all clergymen have sin in their past. EVERY HUMAN BEING has sin in their past. SO yea, if we're going to be so unforgiving of those who repent in their ways, we probably aren't adult enough in our thinking to have statues.

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4 minutes ago, Sirhornsalot said:

Sure we know if they changed. History teaches us this.

The Civil War wasn't just about slaves. You read that right. It was a cluster of issues, along with slavery, that brought the south to secede. As you can see, we have the history. Thats not the problem. Teaching, reading and retaining the history is our biggest problem.

Okay, you find someone who wasn't a racist. Are they sexual predators? Did they beat their wife? Did they kick puppies? I mean, come on. The list just goes on and on because that's who we are – imperfect beings.

Nuns and popes aren't perfect. So yes, you were wrong. Yes, all clergymen have sin in their past. EVERY HUMAN BEING has sin in their past. SO yea, if we're going to be so unforgiving of those who repent in their ways, we probably aren't adult enough in our thinking to have statues.

How do you know they changed though? You say history but that doesn’t mean anything. Did you personally get in the heads of everyone of these men & women the statues & buildings were named after? Did you search their soul to see that they changed? I don’t think so. So you’re talking in absolute about something you can’t possibly know. 
 

Man the whole civil war wasn’t just about slavery bit. Why do we need statues to glorify men who committed treason against our country? Why are they in states that didn’t exist during the Civil War? These statues aren’t about teaching history. They were mostly put up doing Jim Crow to remind blacks of what had occurred. Then somehow it became important history that we cannot take down. It’s idiotic that we have monuments to men who fought to keep people who look like me from being equal. Ok you think maybe they fought for other things, but a core goal was to keep slavery going. So to fight for them, even if that was one pillar of their ideology is still terrible. 
 

And again you talk like you know that everyone in the last 250 yrs has kicked a puppy, beat their wife, etc. Sure we are imperfect but these players & others aren’t asking that we only have statues of perfect people. If some lied about stealing food to feed their family, that’s not equal to a person killing in the name of slavery. If some cheated on their wife, that’s between them & God. But again they aren’t out here lynching people. They are are saying is get rid of the monuments to racists, bigoted people. If you cannot agree with that, you won’t every see the issue. 

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