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16 hours ago, Drb522 said:

He’s had 3 years with the kids he didn’t recruit and inherited.   There’s absolutely no way he can’t develop players that he didn’t recruit them simply because he didn’t recruit them?  

I don't see the evaluation shit show that Urban, and I guess you, think it is. Looks more like the 2014-2016 Charlie Strong recruiting were more the shitshow and were basically overrated. 

The 2014 recruiting class consisted of 22 players and was ranked 17th nationally and 2nd in the Big 12. Basically about 7-8 players out of 22 ended up making even a small a contribution and about that many didn't even end their careers at Texas. This class had 4-5 players tops who made significant contributions and 2 of those made it to the NFL.  

The 2015 class consisted of 27 players and was ranked 10th nationally and 1st in the Big 12. Around 10-12 never made a contribution while at Texas and/left. Of the remaining players, at least 10 of them ended at least getting some kind of shot at the pro level.

The 2016 class consisted of 28 players and was ranked 7th nationally and 1st in the Big 12. Almost half of those are no longer even on the team. Of the rest, one left last year (Lil'Jordan) and probably one will return next year. You can make a case that another 4-5 could get a shot at the pros. Plus Parker Braun.  

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29 minutes ago, North Texas Golfer said:

I don't see the evaluation shit show that Urban, and I guess you, think it is. Looks more like the 2014-2016 Charlie Strong recruiting were more the shitshow and were basically overrated. 

The 2014 recruiting class consisted of 22 players and was ranked 17th nationally and 2nd in the Big 12. Basically about 7-8 players out of 22 ended up making even a small a contribution and about that many didn't even end their careers at Texas. This class had 4-5 players tops who made significant contributions and 2 of those made it to the NFL.  

The 2015 class consisted of 27 players and was ranked 10th nationally and 1st in the Big 12. Around 10-12 never made a contribution while at Texas and/left. Of the remaining players, at least 10 of them ended at least getting some kind of shot at the pro level.

The 2016 class consisted of 28 players and was ranked 7th nationally and 1st in the Big 12. Almost half of those are no longer even on the team. Of the rest, one left last year (Lil'Jordan) and probably one will return next year. You can make a case that another 4-5 could get a shot at the pros. Plus Parker Braun.  

Keep in mind my comment was about the urban statement about Texas not developing for the draft.  You stated Herman hasn’t had a kid he recruited eligible for the draft yet.  My comment was about the kids he inherited and didn’t develop.  Some of them have had three years in his program.  Is it impossible for Herman to develop kids he didn’t recruit?  Surely he could improve them a little bit if he can develop kids he did recruit. 

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18 hours ago, Drb522 said:

Keep in mind my comment was about the urban statement about Texas not developing for the draft.  You stated Herman hasn’t had a kid he recruited eligible for the draft yet.  My comment was about the kids he inherited and didn’t develop.  Some of them have had three years in his program.  Is it impossible for Herman to develop kids he didn’t recruit?  Surely he could improve them a little bit if he can develop kids he did recruit. 

My entire post was about kids that Herman inherited from Charlie's 3 recruiting classes which, despite the ranking, almost half of them either had no business even being on scholarship at Texas or were simply never good enough to really make any kind of contribution. Based on what he had to work with, it is my opinion that saying Herman didn't develop those kids is overblown and that he did improve them at least a little bit, if not more. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. 

 

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2 hours ago, North Texas Golfer said:

My entire post was about kids that Herman inherited from Charlie's 3 recruiting classes which, despite the ranking, almost half of them either had no business even being on scholarship at Texas or were simply never good enough to really make any kind of contribution. Based on what he had to work with, it is my opinion that saying Herman didn't develop those kids is overblown and that he did improve them at least a little bit, if not more. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. 

 

Can’t develop those that left, but he had the ones that stayed for three years.  Malcolm Roach hasn’t improved.  Brandon Jones has played himself out of being drafted probably.  John Burt still can’t catch a football.  Duvernay has been utilized very well.  Jeffrey McCullough stays hurt but hasn’t improved a ton in the last three years from what I’ve seen.  TaQuan Graham was a Charlie recruit right?  Shackleford is still about as good as when he was a sophomore.  Christmas-Giles and Wilbon were both Charlie recruits and they weren’t even utilized this year.  Both could’ve helped imo.  Collin can play but can’t stay healthy, his brother is made of glass.  

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I would concede Jones who has been somewhat of an enigma but Roach is a better fit in a different scheme, Burt has been a part time football player while understandably focused on his track career, McCullough and CJ have struggled with injuries which likely impacted their overall performance. Are there concerns with how these kids have developed, absolutely but not all of it is coaching. In every program, there are kids that improve and some that do not. Without being in the practices for their entire careers, I could not say what the exact reason for these players has been, only speculate.

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7 minutes ago, NEOkHorn said:

I would concede Jones who has been somewhat of an enigma but Roach is a better fit in a different scheme, Burt has been a part time football player while understandably focused on his track career, McCullough and CJ have struggled with injuries which likely impacted their overall performance. Are there concerns with how these kids have developed, absolutely but not all of it is coaching. In every program, there are kids that improve and some that do not. Without being in the practices for their entire careers, I could not say what the exact reason for these players has been, only speculate.

So you’re agreeing that the Strong recruits that spent three seasons under Herman didn’t get much better if any in those three years.  CJ was a nice talent when he got to Texas.  Injuries seem to be a common theme under Herman.  Is it S&C?  Or something else?  To say them not developing  under Herman is overblown is silly.  

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With all this firing/demoting going on it certainly looks like TH made a ton of bad hires when he got to UT. Let's hope he gets it right this time. There was no bigger TH supporter than me for over 2 years. I was also hoping and ready to see him fired the past several weeks. Now I'm glad he is being kept but he needs to get these hires done correctly and fast. Like I used to tell my employees who asked if I wanted a task done fast or right   I said both. 

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Don't think I ever said it was overblown. What I said is that some did develop, some did not. Injuries affected development for some as well. Also pretty sure I said there are concerns but to make a blanket statement that every kid that did not develop as we think they should is Herman's fault is a silly statement. 

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22 hours ago, Drb522 said:

So you’re agreeing that the Strong recruits that spent three seasons under Herman didn’t get much better if any in those three years.  CJ was a nice talent when he got to Texas.  Injuries seem to be a common theme under Herman.  Is it S&C?  Or something else?  To say them not developing  under Herman is overblown is silly.  

I think we're having an interesting discussion here. So what do you think are the realistic "development" expectations for any particular recruiting class?

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1 hour ago, North Texas Golfer said:

I think we're having an interesting discussion here. So what do you think are the realistic "development" expectations for any particular recruiting class?

Just because you didn’t recruit them doesn’t mean you can’t make them better players and use them to their strengths.  That’s what I’m saying.  Some of the upper class men are no better than when Herman took over.  
 

expectations?  Fundamentals, not lost on the field, understand the schemes, not getting physically whipped up front as a team. There are also the physical developments, but I think Texas is physically developing their bodies for playing football.

For a particular recruiting class?  It could be many things.  I mentioned alabama the other day.  You see them lose their starting linebacker and a 2nd or 3rd year guy steps in and they don’t miss a beat.  They have 10-12 drafted each year, and they have a redshirt soph start and is all American.  They develop their players to where they’re prepared to play the moment their turn rises.  Texas loses a starter or two and our defense falls apart.  I understand our scheme isn’t very good, but the backups never seem ready to play.  I hope a new DC can fix this on that side of the ball. I’m not even going to start on the offense

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