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*****GAME THREAD: Texas Longhorns @ #13 Baylor Bears*****

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6 hours ago, primal defense said:

LOL! It's either that or he has a financial interest in Herman staying as coach. Talking about he will need 4-5 years. Give me a beak. Heman has one more year to turn this around.

Financial interest, huh? I post 5 or 6 reasons to stay the course for a bit longer, and that's your rebuttal... If I am due some kind of Herman stipend I sure haven't got any fat checks yet. 

Also for those keeping score at home, one more year would be 4 years. Do you even know what you're arguing? 

And no I don't have a crackpipe to pass around... just a little perspective.

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THE TEXAS LONGHORNS WERE A FRAUD

 

Less than a year ago Texas went to New Orleans and hit Georgia in the mouth for a Sugar Bowl win. That victory sparked a rousing proclamation by Texas quarterback Sam Ehlinger: “We’re baaaaack.” Flash forward 11 months, and the Longhorns are decidedly not back following a 24-10 loss to No. 14 Baylor (10-1). It’s not exactly a surprise to see the Bears handle the Longhorns at home. That’s also the issue. Texas isn’t supposed to lose to Baylor. Texas isn’t even supposed to play Baylor close. Welcome to Texas’ new reality. 

There are a myriad of things wrong with the Longhorns. Injuries are a big problem. Youth is too. Yet it's hard to look at Baylor, a team that finished 1-11 just two seasons ago, and make any sort of excuse for a program with Texas’ talent to faceplant in this manner. The Longhorns rank seventh in 247Sports Team Talent Composite. The Bears rank 35th. This is a coaching and development issue. It’s evident when Texas has 104 penalty yards. It’s evident when Texas punts on fourth-and-5 from Baylor’s 44 in the first quarter of a tie game but goes for it on fourth-and-3 from Baylor’s 39 facing an 11-point third-quarter deficit. It’s evident when you watch Texas’ offense continually run the same quarterback power and zone-read rushing plays from the same formation. It's evident when defenders miss tackles and miss their run fits. 

This was the year the Longhorns were supposed to take a step forward. Instead, they’ve fallen flat. A long offseason full of critical decisions awaits Tom Herman.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-stats-scores-takeaways-rankings-Week-13-139085709/#139085709_3

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Tom Herman should be on the hot seat.

 

Farrell’s take: FACT. Just last week, I was saying Herman still had Texas moving in the right direction and I do believe that is the case in recruiting at least. But another loss makes the Longhorns 6-5, the same record as Tennessee but with much more talent. And let’s face it, they have a lot more talent than Baylor and still lost by two touchdowns. The heat should be raised on Herman now and he will have to make some staff changes. If those don’t work and we see a season like this again next year, he should be gone. This is puzzling. I thought he was a great fit.

Gorney’s take: FACT. When Herman smashed his bare head against a player wearing a helmet in the pre-game leading up to Baylor on Saturday afternoon, he didn’t look like a fired-up coach trying to inspire his team. He looked like a third-rate high school coach trying to pull out some motivational tactic he got at some bad coaching clinic. It was embarrassing to say the least.

What was even worse was his team’s loss to Baylor, where Herman called a timeout with five seconds left so the Longhorns could score a touchdown and make the defeat a little less worse. Texas - Texas! - has the same record as Illinois, Tennessee, Kentucky, Cal and others. And this is with one of the best quarterbacks in college football in Sam Ehlinger.

Of course Herman should be on the hot seat. Why is Herman some irreplaceable coaching genius? Because of a couple good years at Houston? Give me a break. If it wasn’t for Charlie Strong’s disastrous tenure at Texas, Herman would already be on the hottest seat in college football.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/fact-fiction-tom-herman-hot-125425654.html

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On 11/24/2019 at 10:53 AM, Captain Hookem said:

Again... 3 years of recruiting is not enough time to fully build depth. 

As I said earlier, this offense works with Collin and Duvernay, but take either of them out and we become a one-dimensional offense that's easy to shut down. That shouldn't happen, and needs to be rectified with a new offensive direction and new OC. That's a coaching problem. 

The defense was remarkably different when we got starters back 3 games ago, and they've played really well since. People are reluctant to give Orlando any credit now, but the defense has played good enough to win games. That problem seemed to be fixed by getting experience back in the lineup. That's a depth issue. 

 

 

Tell that to Matt Rhule

Quote

MATT RHULE, Baylor
Rhule's win over Herman on Saturday was poetic and appropriate. Herman inherited a talented roster as a school with more resources than every other school in the country. Rhule inherited a roster that was decimated by defections in the wake of the school's sexual assault scandal. Rhule has built a team that was 1-11 just two seasons ago into a fringe playoff contender.

https://www.houstonpress.com/news/herman-era-at-texas-has-become-a-clown-show-11389330

 

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1 hour ago, DMAC said:

Tell that to Matt Rhule

Ah, yet another person who is now mysteriously claiming to have wanted Rhule over Herman 3 years ago. Funny how that works....

That is assuming that Baylor actually has depth, which we really don't know. Everyone seems to be a Baylor expert now. 

And for some reason those same people also now agree with Strong when he said the 'cake is baked', when for the last 5 years were arguing the opposite - that the recruiting was spotty and inconsistent. Even though this is pretty obvious given the lack of players sent to the NFL, those same people now claim Herman was gifted a roster of golden athletes. 

Tell you what (and this applies to everyone who now thinks Baylor is the new standard in college football) why not instead of taking a sample size of 1 go and compare ALL of the 3 year head coaches in college football and compare their rosters for depth. 

While you're at it, go ask them in Michigan, or Notre Dame, or USC how their 3 year projects (or longer) are working out.  Brian Kelley was 12-1 in 2012... I mean it should just keep getting better right?! 

Whoa!... 2016. Not so much... not so much. But Rhule scores a 10-1 so far this year, and some football geniuses on this board think he's about to go undefeated for the foreseeable future. 

Well I guess we'll see. That's a pretty naive view of statistics and football, but then again I prefer to do my thinking for myself instead of blasting articles and thoughts from other people.  

 

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5 hours ago, Captain Hookem said:

Ah, yet another person who is now mysteriously claiming to have wanted Rhule over Herman 3 years ago. Funny how that works....

That is assuming that Baylor actually has depth, which we really don't know. Everyone seems to be a Baylor expert now. 

And for some reason those same people also now agree with Strong when he said the 'cake is baked', when for the last 5 years were arguing the opposite - that the recruiting was spotty and inconsistent. Even though this is pretty obvious given the lack of players sent to the NFL, those same people now claim Herman was gifted a roster of golden athletes. 

Tell you what (and this applies to everyone who now thinks Baylor is the new standard in college football) why not instead of taking a sample size of 1 go and compare ALL of the 3 year head coaches in college football and compare their rosters for depth. 

While you're at it, go ask them in Michigan, or Notre Dame, or USC how their 3 year projects (or longer) are working out.  Brian Kelley was 12-1 in 2012... I mean it should just keep getting better right?! 

Whoa!... 2016. Not so much... not so much. But Rhule scores a 10-1 so far this year, and some football geniuses on this board think he's about to go undefeated for the foreseeable future. 

Well I guess we'll see. That's a pretty naive view of statistics and football, but then again I prefer to do my thinking for myself instead of blasting articles and thoughts from other people.  

 

Could you do me a favor and sum up your point in one sentence?   

Did I miss where someone said they were calling for Rhule over Herman 3 years ago?  I think the basic point is that Rhule is doing much more than Herman with much less.  Do you dispute that?

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If Texas knows whats good for it, it won't fire Tom Herman. Otherwise, we're the school where head coaching sure-fire hits go to kill their careers.

The vultures can circle all they want. CDC is who calls the shot and he says he's safe. One thing CDC will not do is succumb to alumni who want to do his job for him.

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3 hours ago, 83Dee said:

Could you do me a favor and sum up your point in one sentence?   

Did I miss where someone said they were calling for Rhule over Herman 3 years ago?  I think the basic point is that Rhule is doing much more than Herman with much less.  Do you dispute that?

In one sentence: Can we as a fanbase not be jerks by threatening to run off every coach after a bad weekend (or two)?

Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but chasing off coaches has replaced screaming for the backup QB as a favorite past time. All of my favorite coaches growing up (which were really just Landry and DKR) would've never been given a chance today. Outside my personal preferences, there's a lot of examples of other great coaches that needed... time. 

But look, I get it... One can always look around and find a team that's in a better situation. And yes, Rhule is has got Baylor playing at a really high level right now. And before Rhule tons of folks wanted Gary Patterson. And before that I forget who the flavor of the seasons were, but it really doesn't matter... there's always a shinier object somewhere else. 

Texas football is in a bad place right now, and as I said earlier in a serious 4 game slump. But Herman has coached many more than 4 games, and up until 4 games ago we were pretty optimistic about the program. Up until the point he's proven he can't fix things, it's deleterious to the entire program to talk about his replacement. 

To be clear there *are* times when we obviously have a lame duck coach... Strong after losing to Kansas, Mackovic after 'post concussion syndrome', David McWilliams (kinda after the '91 Cotton Bowl) but definitely not long into the '91 season.  All legit times to have seen quite enough. 

But we aren't there yet with Herman, so until we get there let's stop being jerks. It has a real effect on the program. Anytime our fanbase starts to act aggie it should be a time to reflect. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Captain Hookem said:

Ah, yet another person who is now mysteriously claiming to have wanted Rhule over Herman 3 years ago. Funny how that works....

 

Where exactly did I see I wanted to hire Rhule over Herman. 

FACT:  I was the biggest Herman fan on this freaking board in Charlies last year.  I was thrilled when we hired Herman.

This team is NOT performing anywhere near last year and its not just the defense. 

Stop making assumptions based on a single comment about comparing two HC's in their third year. 

Texas has had 2 top 3 recruiting classes back to back.  Baylor was 35 & 29 or something like that. 

Are you saying Baylor has better talent and depth? 

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18 minutes ago, Captain Hookem said:

In one sentence: Can we as a fanbase not be jerks by threatening to run off every coach after a bad weekend (or two)?

 

Seriously do you really believe a few posts by disappointed fans on Hornsports is going to run off the Head Coach of Texas? 

and

I do think Herman should get another year but with all the resources we have is Beck and Orlando the best we can get?  I dont think so.  Herman needs to hire good Coordinators and not just "yes" men.  Thats just my opinion

and I never wanted Fatterson.  I dont think I saw anyone claiming they wanted that turd

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14 hours ago, DMAC said:

Where exactly did I see I wanted to hire Rhule over Herman. 

FACT:  I was the biggest Herman fan on this freaking board in Charlies last year.  I was thrilled when we hired Herman.

This team is NOT performing anywhere near last year and its not just the defense. 

Stop making assumptions based on a single comment about comparing two HC's in their third year. 

Texas has had 2 top 3 recruiting classes back to back.  Baylor was 35 & 29 or something like that. 

Are you saying Baylor has better talent and depth? 

Strange as it may sound, I don't think defense is the problem. They do well for a unit that lost 9 starters and have struggled with injuries.

For the life of me, I don't know why Orlando always gives up a score before he tightens things down. Why must the other team always get to score on the opening drive?

The offense is a head scratcher. They had no trouble scoring last year. But this year they simply aren't. The OL was supposed to dominate this year. Best QB in Big 12 was back. Promising WRs with depth. We even have 5 TEs that we never use.

I can't see a thing that stands in the way of a successful offense. All the tools are there. It's got to be the coaching.

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15 hours ago, DMAC said:

Where exactly did I see I wanted to hire Rhule over Herman. 

FACT:  I was the biggest Herman fan on this freaking board in Charlies last year.  I was thrilled when we hired Herman.

This team is NOT performing anywhere near last year and its not just the defense. 

Stop making assumptions based on a single comment about comparing two HC's in their third year. 

Texas has had 2 top 3 recruiting classes back to back.  Baylor was 35 & 29 or something like that. 

Are you saying Baylor has better talent and depth? 

I can't keep track of what anyone said here and when. I pick up on statements to make larger points, trying to avoid any personal callouts which tend to not be productive. 

My point about Rhule is it's silly to pick a best case scenario to hold Herman to task, like we had this big debate at the time between Herman and Rhule. However there were certainly people a few years ago clamoring for Patterson going, "Why can't be more like TCU?..." Now it's "Why can't we be more like Baylor?..." To me it's the same argument, just a frustrated appeal about a school that happens to be on a good run. 

I don't follow Baylor, but they were recruiting at a pretty high level when the scandal broke. They had some high profile transfers at the time (of which we benefited some) but in general kept most of those classes together. 

If I had to guess on Baylor's current success, Rhule has done a better job of forming his team around what was available and what they've been able to recruit since. That includes coaches and players.

If I have to point to one glaring failure of Herman, it's his lack of building an offense around the talent and depth we had available. That also includes coaches and players. 

Some disagree, but I think Orlando has done a good job all things considered. Our failure over the last few games has been a collapse of the offense, when points allowed has dropped by a lot. 

To me that collapse centers around this scheme falling apart if Collin or Duvernay is out the lineup. At that point defenses can make Texas one dimensional, and then shut down the running game. We were not able to mix in Eagles, Epps, Smith, or any of the other good WR recruits to make this offense consistently move again. We also weren't able to develop a running game that was able to move the ball even when keyed on.

So when I say 'depth' I don't just mean how talented the next in line is, but the ability to have them ready to play. That's just a failure of the offensive staff on a lot of levels. 

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On 11/25/2019 at 10:51 PM, Captain Hookem said:

In one sentence: Can we as a fanbase not be jerks by threatening to run off every coach after a bad weekend (or two)?

Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but chasing off coaches has replaced screaming for the backup QB as a favorite past time. All of my favorite coaches growing up (which were really just Landry and DKR) would've never been given a chance today. Outside my personal preferences, there's a lot of examples of other great coaches that needed... time. 

But look, I get it... One can always look around and find a team that's in a better situation. And yes, Rhule is has got Baylor playing at a really high level right now. And before Rhule tons of folks wanted Gary Patterson. And before that I forget who the flavor of the seasons were, but it really doesn't matter... there's always a shinier object somewhere else. 

Texas football is in a bad place right now, and as I said earlier in a serious 4 game slump. But Herman has coached many more than 4 games, and up until 4 games ago we were pretty optimistic about the program. Up until the point he's proven he can't fix things, it's deleterious to the entire program to talk about his replacement. 

To be clear there *are* times when we obviously have a lame duck coach... Strong after losing to Kansas, Mackovic after 'post concussion syndrome', David McWilliams (kinda after the '91 Cotton Bowl) but definitely not long into the '91 season.  All legit times to have seen quite enough. 

But we aren't there yet with Herman, so until we get there let's stop being jerks. It has a real effect on the program. Anytime our fanbase starts to act aggie it should be a time to reflect. 

 

 

I actually agree with much of what you say.  

Texas fans are historically quick to turn on a coach.  It can become so overwhelming that it kills a coaches ability to recruit talent.  I remember walking to a Texas game toward the end of the great Fred Akers era and seeing a sheet hanging out the window of a dorm room with “Fire Fred” painted on it.  I also agree with you it is premature to fire Herman after year 3. 

But not parting with Herman after this year is based entirely on the belief that firing after only 3 years looks bad.  If he comes back, UT should apologize to Charlie Strong for a premature firing.  “we aren’t there with Herman yet” (as opposed to Mackovic and McWilliams) I disagree.  I would suggest we are witnessing ineptitude on the field about as bad as any I have seen since the late 70s and that is saying a lot.  This ineptitude is in areas that I believe point directly at coaching.  For example: 

 Texas leads the Big 12 in missed tackles

 Texas leads the Big 12 in sacks allowed 

> Texas leads the Big 12 in penalties

This ^^^^ in year 3 of CTH!

Here are some further observations that I also believe point directly back to coaching and preparation:

 

>  I haven’t researched percentages but it seems our opponent scores a TD on their first possession just about every game!  If this isn’t preparation, I’m not sure what is?

 We are on year 3 of the worst special teams I have ever seen!  Specifically punt and Kickoff return.  How many years does it take to teach returners when to / and when to not field a punt? 

So, I get what you’re saying…. Crying in public doesn’t help matters.  But bringing Herman back - new coordinators or not is likely just delaying the inevitable.  

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On 11/26/2019 at 1:25 PM, Sirhornsalot said:

Strange as it may sound, I don't think defense is the problem. They do well for a unit that lost 9 starters and have struggled with injuries.

For the life of me, I don't know why Orlando always gives up a score before he tightens things down. Why must the other team always get to score on the opening drive?

The offense is a head scratcher. They had no trouble scoring last year. But this year they simply aren't. The OL was supposed to dominate this year. Best QB in Big 12 was back. Promising WRs with depth. We even have 5 TEs that we never use.

I can't see a thing that stands in the way of a successful offense. All the tools are there. It's got to be the coaching.

I tentatively disagree.  

I don’t think Orlando is a good fit at a blue-Blood program.  I think his defense is designed for a directional school that doesn’t match up man for man.  It is all about deception and trickery and not about beating your man.  Blue bloods, for example, ought to be able to get a semblance of a pass rush from superior D Linemen.  I honestly don’t think pressure from the DL is in our design.  A safety led Texas in sacks last year if I’m not mistaken.  

I don’t think I should EVER look up and see THE University of Texas with a total of 1 defensive lineman on the field. This is a package we use at times on passing downs.   

I think offense, defense and last but NOT least special teams are the problem.  

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