*****GAME THREAD: Texas Longhorns @ #13 Baylor Bears*****

[Sirhornsalot]

26 minutes ago, MBHORNSFAN said:

Herman is fraud... Changing assistant coaches changes nothing...

 

Herman cannot fix this..

 

 

Prove me wrong.

(scratches head)

How about no?

People are as pissed off as you are and probably don't feel up to chasing rabbits even if they disagreed with you.

[Rotty22]

A HC's salary should be low and the contract loaded with incentives to earn more based on performance.  If the team doesn't perform then the HC and maybe the subordinate coaches's compensation is lower.  Pay based on performance.  The AD should approach TH with that one to see if he would go for it.

[Drb522]

3 hours ago, aUTfan said:

I don't think Texas is going to beat Texas Tech

aTm is praying the SEC doesn’t let somebody else play Texas in a bowl game.  They’d curb stomp this crap

[63_Texas_1]

In response to:

can't help but wonder where we might be if Franklin had been hired instead of Charlie.

If memory serves me well there were some off the field "alleged" incidents. Many UT fans and especially at OB poo-poo the idea of bringing some one like Franklin hete (with his alleged tarnished reputation). What really amuses me is that Clemson HC offered to bring his whole staff here to Texas. The posters at OB (don't know about here as I was not a member then) ridicule hiring the Clemson coach (Who is he? What has he done? He really has a big opinion of himself. Texas can do better. Well? Meanwhile Charlie was hired.

On another thought: I wonder of LSU would want to trade coaches now after they think we robbed them of their pick of head coach. I'm guessing not. LOL

[Captain Hookem]

2 hours ago, dillohorn said:

How does a major football school like UT not fire Herman after this dreadful, poorly coached 3rd season? I'm serious. 

First of all... We're on a 4 game skid, not a team that's been poorly coached for 3 seasons. That's the big difference between this situation and the one involving Strong, which was a program that had actually regressed over the entire course of 3 seasons.

In most situations a coach deserves the chance to recruit a senior class and see his plans through a 4 or 5 year plan. Yes it's a young team with most of his recruits, but that's also one of our problems right now. It's obvious we have zero depth at a lot of key positions. There's just no way a coach fully develop a roster with experience and depth in 3 years.

We don't want to become a school that good coaches don't want because of a hair trigger firing. Most coaches go through struggles and want to be given a chance to fix problems. That's why they are at least given one round of coordinator changes before being let go. Sure, we can money whip a lot of folks to come here. But then those coaches have a hard time finding assistants.

And lastly... who in the heck would you even bring in right now? The 'anyone else is better' argument is a cop out at best. Herman would get snapped up in a second, and most likely by another big time school. If other schools made a list of top coaches to hire, Herman would be on it. Both college and NFL are rife with coaches who struggle in one situation and thrive in their next assignment. That is primarily because the first situations gave up on them too soon. 

I said in another thread that the idea of a 'receivership' was silly. That's primarily because Herman already studies other school programs, talks to other coaches, and organizes the program after other successful coaches. As a prime example he expanded the coaching staff and support to the max level allowed like Saban and Meyer did with their programs. What else could a 'professional consultant' offer that Herman isn't already trying to accomplish? Herman knows what a successful program looks like.

Ok, this is lastly for real. No one really wants to start over... again... yet. To get rid of Herman and hire another coach with a 4 or 5 or plan? That makes less sense than seeing if we are maybe just a season away from putting the pieces together.   

[mctmatt]

Captain Hookem please pass that crack pipe your using my way. Don`t bogart it all.

[Baron]

23 minutes ago, mctmatt said:

Captain Hookem please pass that crack pipe your using my way. Don`t bogart it all.

+1 for a non-film Bogart reference. 

[Baron]

So what happened in the 4th qtr that Herman says needs punitive measures?

[Rotty22]

2 minutes ago, Baron said:

So what happened in the 4th qtr that Herman says needs punitive measures?

Braun did something that got him removed from the game and field; among other things.

[dillohorn]

Please don't accept a bowl bid. It would be a repeat of what we have seen all season. Horns would get mud holed in any bowl and recruiting would be further damaged ( if that's possible ). Just get the tt game over with and let this mess end. I predict a loss to tt also....................Hello BMD's.

[TexCoyote]

We really have to continue to try to recruit at the highest level on offensive and defensive linemen. So many games are decided right there. It’s a HUGE advantage when you can rush 3 guys and get home with it or cause a hurry. People are saying Sam held on to it too long but nobody was open. They’re are covering 4 guys with 8 guys. Not going to get much like that. Orlando was having to bring extra guys to try to get pressure. You look at these top teams offensive and defensive linemen and they are able to run the football and get to the QB. Play calling comes in too. I have said for years that Texas run game takes so long to develop. I hope we’ll eventually get there. Most likely some changes coming soon, I would think. 

[Drb522]

15 minutes ago, TexCoyote said:

We really have to continue to try to recruit at the highest level on offensive and defensive linemen. So many games are decided right there. It’s a HUGE advantage when you can rush 3 guys and get home with it or cause a hurry. People are saying Sam held on to it too long but nobody was open. They’re are covering 4 guys with 8 guys. Not going to get much like that. Orlando was having to bring extra guys to try to get pressure. You look at these top teams offensive and defensive linemen and they are able to run the football and get to the QB. Play calling comes in too. I have said for years that Texas run game takes so long to develop. I hope we’ll eventually get there. Most likely some changes coming soon, I would think. 

Orlando has tried that all year and it’s failed to get there or we got burned in the middle of the field.  His stubbornness about a 3 man front has killed the defense all year

[Eastexhorn]

11 hours ago, Captain Hookem said:

First of all... We're on a 4 game skid, not a team that's been poorly coached for 3 seasons. That's the big difference between this situation and the one involving Strong, which was a program that had actually regressed over the entire course of 3 seasons.

In most situations a coach deserves the chance to recruit a senior class and see his plans through a 4 or 5 year plan. Yes it's a young team with most of his recruits, but that's also one of our problems right now. It's obvious we have zero depth at a lot of key positions. There's just no way a coach fully develop a roster with experience and depth in 3 years.

We don't want to become a school that good coaches don't want because of a hair trigger firing. Most coaches go through struggles and want to be given a chance to fix problems. That's why they are at least given one round of coordinator changes before being let go. Sure, we can money whip a lot of folks to come here. But then those coaches have a hard time finding assistants.

And lastly... who in the heck would you even bring in right now? The 'anyone else is better' argument is a cop out at best. Herman would get snapped up in a second, and most likely by another big time school. If other schools made a list of top coaches to hire, Herman would be on it. Both college and NFL are rife with coaches who struggle in one situation and thrive in their next assignment. That is primarily because the first situations gave up on them too soon. 

I said in another thread that the idea of a 'receivership' was silly. That's primarily because Herman already studies other school programs, talks to other coaches, and organizes the program after other successful coaches. As a prime example he expanded the coaching staff and support to the max level allowed like Saban and Meyer did with their programs. What else could a 'professional consultant' offer that Herman isn't already trying to accomplish? Herman knows what a successful program looks like.

Ok, this is lastly for real. No one really wants to start over... again... yet. To get rid of Herman and hire another coach with a 4 or 5 or plan? That makes less sense than seeing if we are maybe just a season away from putting the pieces together.   

Most of the problems such as lack of depth is whos fault. Head acoachIMO.

[primal defense]

 

Tom Herman is on the hot seat: It's ... warmer than it was a few months ago, that's for sure. You have to take Texas' 24-10 loss to one-loss Baylor, which dropped it to 6-5, with some context, though. Not even a year ago, it capped off a 10-win season with a Sugar Bowl victory in Herman's second year. It's too soon to abandon ship. The problem is this is the new standard at Texas and has been for the past decade. The Longhorns have lost at least four games each year since 2010. Is Herman the one to get it turned around? That question has been asked a lot, and in Year 3, there's not a definitive answer. Theoretically, at a blue-blood, championship-level depth should be noticeable by now. With Texas, it's not. 

Jimbo Fisher has been a bust at Texas A&M: Harsh, but you set an awfully high bar when you pay a coach $75 million guaranteed. After losing to Georgia 19-13 on Saturday, Fisher is 2-6 vs. ranked opponents while at A&M and winless in four tries this season. That means he's earned a year's salary ($7.5 million or about $20,500 a day) since he last beat a ranked team (74-72 over No. 7 LSU in a bazillion overtimes last year). Granted, the Aggies have had a monstrosity of a schedule. No one envies having to play Clemson, Alabama, Auburn, LSU and Georgia in the same season. That's impossible. But to be a quality team, you have to at least get one of those wins.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-top-25-scores-overreactions-week-13-tom-herman-and-jimbo-fisher-are-busts-so-far/

[Hiwood]

I think the only "hot seat" that Herman, is the one created by a myopic fan base that really doesnt understand what it takes to build a perennial national power

Has Texas played poorly this year? you bet your behind they have, is it all the fault of TH? not a chance...there is plenty of blame to go around including those players who seem to consistently be out of position, take bad angles to attack, and those that make stupid bonehead penalties in crucial situations

Texas my have needed this type of season because it will force his hand on position coaches and coordinators; He might even have to clean house.

It will be interesting to see if either of the blue chip QB recruits are given a chance to show their stuff 

[primal defense]

[Captain Hookem]

39 minutes ago, Eastexhorn said:

Most of the problems such as lack of depth is whos fault. Head acoachIMO.

Again... 3 years of recruiting is not enough time to fully build depth. 

As I said earlier, this offense works with Collin and Duvernay, but take either of them out and we become a one-dimensional offense that's easy to shut down. That shouldn't happen, and needs to be rectified with a new offensive direction and new OC. That's a coaching problem. 

The defense was remarkably different when we got starters back 3 games ago, and they've played really well since. People are reluctant to give Orlando any credit now, but the defense has played good enough to win games. That problem seemed to be fixed by getting experience back in the lineup. That's a depth issue. 

 

 

[primal defense]

44 minutes ago, Hiwood said:

I think the only "hot seat" that Herman, is the one created by a myopic fan base that really doesnt understand what it takes to build a perennial national power

Has Texas played poorly this year? you bet your behind they have, is it all the fault of TH? not a chance...there is plenty of blame to go around including those players who seem to consistently be out of position, take bad angles to attack, and those that make stupid bonehead penalties in crucial situations

Texas my have needed this type of season because it will force his hand on position coaches and coordinators; He might even have to clean house.

It will be interesting to see if either of the blue chip QB recruits are given a chance to show their stuff 

Bullshit! Blame the fans and the players. It can't be the genius. A 7-5 or 6-6 record for his third year is on Tom Herman. Texas did not need this kind of season to force his hand. They needed a coach they could pick the right assistants in the first place.

Tom Herman will be on the hot season next season and he deserves to be on it.

[Eastexhorn]

56 minutes ago, Captain Hookem said:

Again... 3 years of recruiting is not enough time to fully build depth. 

As I said earlier, this offense works with Collin and Duvernay, but take either of them out and we become a one-dimensional offense that's easy to shut down. That shouldn't happen, and needs to be rectified with a new offensive direction and new OC. That's a coaching problem. 

The defense was remarkably different when we got starters back 3 games ago, and they've played really well since. People are reluctant to give Orlando any credit now, but the defense has played good enough to win games. That problem seemed to be fixed by getting experience back in the lineup. That's a depth issue. 

 

 

Three years not enough time to build depth? Baylor says hi. Then Baylor mighr have more players comming back than Texas.

[primal defense]

13 hours ago, mctmatt said:

Captain Hookem please pass that crack pipe your using my way. Don`t bogart it all.

LOL! It's either that or he has a financial interest in Herman staying as coach. Talking about he will need 4-5 years. Give me a beak. Heman has one more year to turn this around.

[primal defense]

15 minutes ago, Eastexhorn said:

Three years not enough time to build depth? Baylor says hi. Then Baylor mighr have more players comming back than Texas.

It's not just Baylor that has turned it around in three years. It's Minnesota with PJ Fleck, Ed O LSU. Not only that Dan Mullen has tuned around Florida 9-2 in his second season. Same for Sonny Dykes at SMU.

Tom Herman was given better players which were 4 stars then Charley Strong was given then he took over. He also has a much better AD than Strong had. Anybody who says any coach needs 4-5 years to turn around is rubbish. The trend now is a shorter timeline than in the past. Willie Taggart didn't last two full seasons at Florida State. There is too much money at stake.

The difference in revenue between a team contending for a NC a 6-6 is big.

[Sirhornsalot]

36 minutes ago, primal defense said:

LOL! It's either that or he has a financial interest in Herman staying as coach. Talking about he will need 4-5 years. Give me a beak. Heman has one more year to turn this around.

Or do you have a financial interest in Herman getting canned?

You saw last year. Herman coached that team, too.

Your problem is firing a coach is the typical knee-jerk reaction. Who would you even hire to replace him? Saban? lol

He did well his first year. He did very well his second year. He stunk up the place his third year. Which coach do you have? You clearly don't know. Neither do I. He gets another year because neither of us can answer that question.

Next year is Year 4. So 4-5 years is exactly what we're dealing with.

[primal defense]

1 minute ago, Sirhornsalot said:

Or do you have a financial interest in Herman getting canned?

You saw last year. Herman coached that team, too.

Your problem is firing a coach is the typical knee-jerk reaction. Who would you even hire to replace him? Saban? lol

He did well his first year. He did very well his second year. He stunk up the place his third year. Which coach do you have? You clearly don't know. Neither do I. He gets another year because neither of us can answer that question.

Next year is Year 4. So 4-5 years is exactly what we're dealing with.

You ignored me saying that Herman has one more year to turn it around. So don't pretend that I'm calling for Herman to fired.

I found that a dishonest argument. We agree that Herman will get a fourth season and will have to prove that  he deserves a fifth.

[Sirhornsalot]

4 minutes ago, primal defense said:

You ignored me saying that Herman has one more year to turn it around. So don't pretend that I'm calling for Herman to fired.

I found that a dishonest argument. We agree that Herman will get a fourth season and will have to prove that  he deserves a fifth.

So why did you even ask if he had a financial interest in Herman staying? You both agreed, yet, you tried to call him out.

I agree with you in that he will need to prove he deserves a fifth season, based on what we see in Year 4.

And I think you and I can agree he probably stinks up the place again if we march in with the same staff.

[tejasrulz]

1 hour ago, Sirhornsalot said:

Your problem is firing a coach is the typical knee-jerk reaction. Who would you even hire to replace him? Saban?

I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another that his wife is in town looking at houses.  

Too soon?