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Best UT Class Ever?


Sirhornsalot
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3 hours ago, DMAC said:

Maybe I am missing the point but comparing the current class with past classes and achievements is futile. 

The current class has not achieved anything yet, so calling it the best class ever is premature.

 

Its just a class right now. And they rank them, so yes, you can judge right now. They are on an equal playing field.

What you can't do is look back and see who did something and who dropped out of school, etc., So there's also a hindsight version of this conversation that will have to wait a few years.

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15 hours ago, Sirhornsalot said:

 

Thats hilarious. At my 3A high school in 1980, we thought we were small because we had 190 pd OLs. 

But that was the size of OLs back in the day. Former Cowboy coach Jimmy Johnson was an OL at Arkansas, but barely weighed 200 lbs.

Thats why people like McKoy and Bob Lilly were huge in that day. 6'4, 270 was a really big lineman back then.

As Dean showed, its not the size of the dog, but the fight in the dog.

 

That's a total contradiction to what you said earlier about white competition. You can only compete against who you are lined up to play. Those old white dudes played against other old white dudes mostly. Other than Jerry Levias, there wasn't much speed around back then, but they compiled a nice record against who they played. Ohio State and Penn State had black players and may have beaten Texas on the field, but they never got the chance. That was not the fault of the white dudes just as it wasn't the fault of the little white boys you competed against in high school in Daingerfield. 

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9 minutes ago, jaysebring said:

That's a total contradiction to what you said earlier about white competition. You can only compete against who you are lined up to play. Those old white dudes played against other old white dudes mostly. Other than Jerry Levias, there wasn't much speed around back then, but they compiled a nice record against who they played. Ohio State and Penn State had black players and may have beaten Texas on the field, but they never got the chance. That was not the fault of the white dudes just as it wasn't the fault of the little white boys you competed against in high school in Daingerfield. 

Total crap.

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If we're gonna compare recruiting classes then the only way to keep it somewhat subjective is to compare them based on the class rank prior to any of the kids ever stepping foot on campus.  Start with the overall class rank, then go to number of 5*, 4*, 3* etc.  How certain individuals performed is irrelevant considering this class hasn't made it to campus.  If we want to compare classes based on how the classes performed on the field, we have to wait a minimum of 3 years before we can even speak on this class...

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1 hour ago, DBut82 said:

If we're gonna compare recruiting classes then the only way to keep it somewhat subjective is to compare them based on the class rank prior to any of the kids ever stepping foot on campus.  Start with the overall class rank, then go to number of 5*, 4*, 3* etc.  How certain individuals performed is irrelevant considering this class hasn't made it to campus.  If we want to compare classes based on how the classes performed on the field, we have to wait a minimum of 3 years before we can even speak on this class...

Does anyone know when the ranking of recruiting classes begin?

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4 hours ago, jaysebring said:

That's a total contradiction to what you said earlier about white competition. You can only compete against who you are lined up to play. Those old white dudes played against other old white dudes mostly. Other than Jerry Levias, there wasn't much speed around back then, but they compiled a nice record against who they played. Ohio State and Penn State had black players and may have beaten Texas on the field, but they never got the chance. That was not the fault of the white dudes just as it wasn't the fault of the little white boys you competed against in high school in Daingerfield. 

 

Thats true, so it is what it is. Its unfortunate.

Daingerfield was and still is a high school with about a 50-50 white/black population. I never knew any different in my time in school. I never attended an all-white school.

But since you brought it up – Daingerfield integrated with the black high school there (JJ Rhoads High School) in 1967, putting blacks and whites in the same classrooms for the first time in Daingerfield.

They won their first state championship ever the very next football season. Who did they beat in the state championship? The all-black Lufkin Dunbar school.

Whether in the military or a football team or anywhere else, we are best when we can present the best of all of us.

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39 minutes ago, Sirhornsalot said:

 

Thats true, so it is what it is. Its unfortunate.

Daingerfield was and still is a high school with about a 50-50 white/black population. I never knew any different in my time in school. I never attended an all-white school.

But since you brought it up – Daingerfield integrated with the black high school there (JJ Rhoads High School) in 1967, putting blacks and whites in the same classrooms for the first time in Daingerfield.

They won their first state championship ever the very next football season. Who did they beat in the state championship? The all-black Lufkin Dunbar school.

Whether in the military or a football team or anywhere else, we are best when we can present the best of all of us.

Oh, yeah, I totally agree with you and I detest racism with a passion and it's embarrassing that Texas was the last all white national champions. 

But, it is what it is as you said. That all white team just beat everyone they played and that's not their fault that they played in the 1960s in the south. They were still as good as it got in the time period. 

Whether they would have beaten an integrated Penn State, or Ohio State we will never know. Our team was good, but we never make it to #1 if Michigan didn't pull off the upset of the century in 1969. The Buckeyes were the defending national champs with the Super Sophomores and they were rolling in 1969 with a team that everyone said was even better. Without Michigan, the game in Arkansas doesn't mean that much nationally. 

Oh, and by the way, Sir Hornsalot, thanks for this post. My favorite subject is recruiting and I love the old school stuff as well. I appreciate it. 

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3 hours ago, North Texas Golfer said:

Does anyone know when the ranking of recruiting classes begin?

Recruiting rankings may have started in the late 1970s with a guy named Joe Terranova in Dearborn, Michigan. He put out a recruiting booklet and he ranked the classes. He didn't see everyone play and i never agreed with his lists. 

Our Class in 1980 was ranked about 4th, I believe, by Terranova and we should have been at #1 or #2. He had Georgia, with Herschel Walker ranked 9th and they were an incredible class. 

After Terranova, there were much better recruiting classes including guys like Max Emfinger. He ranked classes and was a little better than the old Terranova booklet. There were others at about the same time. Emfinger had a 900 number that you could call and get updates on your school. I spent many a buck on that 900 number. 

When the internet came along, then Rivals and 247 and so many others came along. 

Sadly, I've been a recruiting geek since 1974 and have blown a lot of money on magazines and 900 numbers. Now, it's mostly free and young guys don't know how great they have it with Hudl and other services. Even though I have had moments of burn out on this stuff, I keep coming back for more and more. 

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28 minutes ago, jaysebring said:

Oh, yeah, I totally agree with you and I detest racism with a passion and it's embarrassing that Texas was the last all white national champions. 

But, it is what it is as you said. That all white team just beat everyone they played and that's not their fault that they played in the 1960s in the south. They were still as good as it got in the time period. 

Whether they would have beaten an integrated Penn State, or Ohio State we will never know. Our team was good, but we never make it to #1 if Michigan didn't pull off the upset of the century in 1969. The Buckeyes were the defending national champs with the Super Sophomores and they were rolling in 1969 with a team that everyone said was even better. Without Michigan, the game in Arkansas doesn't mean that much nationally. 

Oh, and by the way, Sir Hornsalot, thanks for this post. My favorite subject is recruiting and I love the old school stuff as well. I appreciate it. 

There's no blame or fault to be put on that team. Those players just did what they thought they were supposed to do – go to school and play ball. They beat the teams that were on their schedule. You can't ask anything more.

I'm like you, very old school. Your post on recruiting brought back some memories as I remember those early days well. You went back to '80 and further, which is before I got into it. Joe Scarborough (I think is his name) put out a True Orange magazine/newsletter that I used to subscribe to. It was about as good as it got during that time.

The internet made the whole thing explode. Before Rivals came along, we had other sites that were doing it. THEUniversity.com, Hornfans, Hook'em360 were all popular back then. In fact, THEUniversity.com later became what is now OB.

I remember posters like "Magic Loogie" and a few others who were completely dialed in with the inside info. Those were fun times.

We've come a long way since then.

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1 hour ago, Royal 60 said:

Let's look back on this topic and see who in the world brought race into this conversation ! 

 

I did. It would be troubling if I had not. And I spoke up because you can't have the best recruiting class of all time when you had half the pool to choose from.

I also made the same point from the opposite direction. Note that an INTEGRATED Daingerfield high school won state over an all-black Lufkin Dunbar.

Its not rocket science. Divided we are weaker. Together we are stronger.

 

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1 hour ago, dillohorn said:

That year there was no way OSU or PSU would have beaten UT.

We don't know whether they could have or not. Can't say that for a fact unless they played. Rex Kern, John Brockington, Jack Tatum and the rest of those super sophs could play and Penn State had Franco Harris and Jack Ham two pro football hall of famers. They both had some talent. We'll never know who would have won. 

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10 hours ago, jaysebring said:

We don't know whether they could have or not. Can't say that for a fact unless they played. Rex Kern, John Brockington, Jack Tatum and the rest of those super sophs could play and Penn State had Franco Harris and Jack Ham two pro football hall of famers. They both had some talent. We'll never know who would have won. 

Trying to prove a negative. I will say that Tascosa High School might have beaten Clemson last season, but we'll never know for sure since they didn't play.

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2 minutes ago, Marvelous Marv said:

Define best recruiting class. Is this based on average stars, potential of players, how many championships produced or another metric?

 

You can't judge them by number of championships. The class you would compare to hasn't even got to campus yet.

I don't know how you rate potential.

I think you'd have to go by stars and the class as a whole. The 2002 class had four 5-star recruits in it, so this class would need to compare favorably by having more 4-stars or some such. The 2002 class had numerous three-stars in it and this one has 1.

Its an interesting comparison and you have to keep out of your mind what they did at UT through 4 years and just compare them prior to their arrival at UT.

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2 minutes ago, Sirhornsalot said:

 

You can't judge them by number of championships. The class you would compare to hasn't even got to campus yet.

I don't know how you rate potential.

I think you'd have to go by stars and the class as a whole. The 2002 class had four 5-star recruits in it, so this class would need to compare favorably by having more 4-stars or some such. The 2002 class had numerous three-stars in it and this one has 1.

Its an interesting comparison and you have to keep out of your mind what they did at UT through 4 years and just compare them prior to their arrival at UT.

I understand your points. One of my points was in reference to the Worster class that won two national championships vs the 2002 class. I would inquire how does the class of J Saxton, Koy or Nobis would rank. Those classes were talented, too. Of course, those classes were very huge. That would be another intangible or layer of onion to peel. Just some thoughts. Thanks.

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7 minutes ago, Marvelous Marv said:

I understand your points. One of my points was in reference to the Worster class that won two national championships vs the 2002 class. I would inquire how does the class of J Saxton, Koy or Nobis would rank. Those classes were talented, too. Of course, those classes were very huge. That would be another intangible or layer of onion to peel. Just some thoughts. Thanks.

 

The Worster class only wins one title if they were playing today. The bowl loss would have dropped them a few spots.

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