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5 Thoughts Following The Loss To TCU


Daniel Seahorn
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16 hours ago, North Texas Golfer said:

Rumors are out there that Beck has been relieved of play-calling duties. 

That's encouraging.

I was starting to believe we had a bad offense. I cant wait to see the innovative plays our new offensive wizard will run.

They must be "cutting edge" plays since they won't require blocking, running, throwing, or catching.

Beck must be one hard headed SOB to not at least tried to run some of these new plays the past ten weeks.

 

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42 minutes ago, RickyFlair said:

That's encouraging.

I was starting to believe we had a bad offense. I cant wait to see the innovative plays our new offensive wizard will run.

They must be "cutting edge" plays since they won't require blocking, running, throwing, or catching.

Beck must be one hard headed SOB to not at least tried to run some of these new plays the past ten weeks.

 

LOL! I totally understand where you're going with this.  And I agree mostly.  And I'm not really up for relieving a coach of his duties mid season year one.  But my issue regarding play calling is the fact there are PLENTY of plays that can be ran with the deficiencies on offense.  Why hasn't he called them?  I mean, we have a porous OL who can't block longer than 1.5 secs.  Call plays to get the ball out quickly.  This line was recruited to be power run blockers.  Run power run plays.  Call a pass play from the wildcat.  I mean you have a 4 star qb running the daggum package. Remember after Charles left and we trotted Chris Ogbonnaya as our RB?  We knew he wasn't the truth so we ran plays accordingly and the quick pass screen game became our offense.  Why hasn't this happened?  I just think the offense is a cluster right now and I don't understand why coaches aren't reviewing film, finding what works, and repping those plays ad nauseam  until we have something of an identity...hope this rambling post makes sense.

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20 minutes ago, Hiwood said:

Saturdays game proved to me that we currently have above average talent...above average aint gonna cut it...this team will look drastically different next year and then the following year..The coaching staff is doing its best to stay in the game with less than blue chip talent..With the exception of a few first team All Conference players on defense , there are no such athletes on offense...

Asking Hermann and staff to make a winner of CS recruits is unrealistic, the program got used to losing and its hard to shake that DNA, TCU was the first game that the Horns were never in a position to win..Never thought I would see a day that TCU would dominate Texas this many years in a row, like a bad dream...

Not throwing in the towel, but ready to change the identity of this one..

We are losing weekly to teams that have accumulated less talent.

Texas Recruiting Classes

2017 Natl. - 25, Big 12 -  2

2016 Natl. - 7, Big 12 - 1

2015 Natl. - 10, Big 12 - 1

2014 Natl. - 17, Big 12 - 2

2013 Natl. - 17, Big 12 - 2

2012 Natl. - 2, Big 12 - 1

TCU had the 3rd best class in the Big 12 the past two years. 6th in 2015, 7th in 2014, 6th in 2013, and 5th in 2012.

I don't know what color chip that talent would be but it beat our ass on Saturday.

We definitely need to change our identity because we seem stuck with "Texas, the best 4 win team in the Country" or "Texas, making cow chips out of blue chips since 2012"

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56 minutes ago, Dbut82 said:

LOL! I totally understand where you're going with this.  And I agree mostly.  And I'm not really up for relieving a coach of his duties mid season year one.  But my issue regarding play calling is the fact there are PLENTY of plays that can be ran with the deficiencies on offense.  Why hasn't he called them?  I mean, we have a porous OL who can't block longer than 1.5 secs.  Call plays to get the ball out quickly.  This line was recruited to be power run blockers.  Run power run plays.  Call a pass play from the wildcat.  I mean you have a 4 star qb running the daggum package. Remember after Charles left and we trotted Chris Ogbonnaya as our RB?  We knew he wasn't the truth so we ran plays accordingly and the quick pass screen game became our offense.  Why hasn't this happened?  I just think the offense is a cluster right now and I don't understand why coaches aren't reviewing film, finding what works, and repping those plays ad nauseam  until we have something of an identity...hope this rambling post makes sense.

Your post makes complete sense to me but it obviously wouldn't to our coaching staff.

It seems our staff considers what you are describing as a change in scheme. Coach Herman has been adamant that we will not abandon our current scheme. He has stated repeatedly that our personnel is hindering our offensive capabilities but the players believe in what we are doing and improving. I'm not sure what type of catastrophe would occur if we adjusted the offense to our personnel but apparently it would be severe. More severe than continuing to waste the incredible performances of our defense and the health of our Quarterbacks.

I use to cuss Greg Davis repeatedly during his time at Texas but he was very wise during our last glory years. He adapted the offense to fit Vince's strengths and adapted it again for Colt. I know those two guys were special but they were also completely different. If either QB had been forced to run the others offense their effectiveness would have suffered tremendously.

Bill O'Brien had the worst offensive line in the NFL the first two weeks of this season. By week three he had begun to tailor the offense around Deshaun Watson and they were breaking franchise records. Analyst were saying it was a college scheme and the defenses would adjust. Obviously they didn't adjust quick enough since he broke the NFL record for the most passing touchdowns in the first seven games.

Good coaches adjust their schemes for personnel. They adjust for their opponent and they adjust for their own team.

I realize we have so many issues on offense that there probably isn't a scheme that will work. I would hope our coaches might be willing to explore some alternatives since the only one we know doesn't work is the one we keep using.

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When your offensive line is this bad and your WR"s don't run good routes and your RB's and QB's are nothing special, then for the most part it doesn't matter what play you call.

Bottom line, it starts with the OL and there is simply not that much to work due to injuries, youth, and plain old lack of talent. 

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My biggest fear is that someone is about to say Herman needs to get "his guys" in the program. Because then I'll get a pit in my stomach. He needs to pull this season out with a good run, maybe undefeated into the bowl game and winning that. We have shown we can do that IMO - now go do it. He hasn't done enough aligning in my book to get any more rope than that.

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I don't have the time to do it, but would be interesting to see the years of experience/eligibility of the depth charts we've been facing vs. ours.

I have never fully adjusted to the lack of junior/senior laden teams that were around here decades ago. I'm old school back to Yearlings when freshmen did not play. I remember several things...

- Senior leadership was one. Juniors and Seniors led for the most part followed by upstart very talented Sophs who could get playing time.
- The excitement of the "Sophs" getting a chance to play.
- Games put away late in 3rd quarter and 'subs' coming in.
- A good QB was a senior, or maybe played his final two years.
Street took over after early games (I believe) with UH and then Texas Tech (maybe he took over during that Tech game?) .. but, after that game Street became the starter and never lost a game. Finished that year and then went undefeated regular season the next.

IMHO, a team needs juniors and seniors in the trenches (strength positions) for both experience and leadership. I believe the '04 and '05 teams were junior/senior-laden, including the TE position. His final year, wasn't VY a 4th year player having red-shirted?

The program lost the rollover/staggering (year-to-year) of experience in the offensive line by the time Brown was exiting. Also fell behind the curve doing the same at the QB position.

Okay I found a 2005 depth chart. Listed for a Colorado game on the sheet I found-- Conf title game?
http://www.netitor.com/photos/schools/tex/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/05gameweek-cu-depth.pdf

Skill positions down to FR and So can produce if complemented by experience and leadership from TE / Tackle-to-Tackle.

TE, David Thomas, Sr
RT, Justin Blalock, Jr
RG, Will Allen, Sr
C, Lyle Sendlein, Jr
LG, Kasey Studdard, Jr
LT, Jonathan Scott, Sr
Split End, Limas Sweed, So
Tailbacks, Jamaal Charles, Fr, Selvin Young, Jr
FB, Ahmard Hall, Sr
Flankers, Brian Carter, Sr., Nate Jones, So
QB, Superman

Next in line on that depth chart, tackle-to-tackle.
TE, Jr. Neale Tweedie
RT, Sr. Wm. Winston
RG, Fr-RS  Cedric Dockery
C, So. Dallas Griffin
LG, Sr. Mike Garcia
LT, So. Tony Hills
 

We could use some transfers and JUCOs and time to recruit across three seasons to build the base.

Edited by Epictetus
Cleaned up and slimmed it down.
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14 hours ago, RickyFlair said:

We are losing weekly to teams that have accumulated less talent.

Texas Recruiting Classes

2017 Natl. - 25, Big 12 -  2

2016 Natl. - 7, Big 12 - 1

2015 Natl. - 10, Big 12 - 1

2014 Natl. - 17, Big 12 - 2

2013 Natl. - 17, Big 12 - 2

2012 Natl. - 2, Big 12 - 1

Go through those classes and remove the guys who never made it to campus, washed out or haven't stayed healthy enough to contribute and you get a slightly different picture. The 2014 class drops into the 30s in national ranking if you take out the guys who didn't make it to campus or washed out when Strong was hired. Those are your seniors and redshirt juniors right now.

You can remove 10 blue chips from the 2015-16 classes (counting Kirk Johnson and Patrick Hudson because of injury), plus two more from 2014 (Roberson and Catalon). Far more significantly, erase three offensive linemen (Delance, Hodges, Major; add Hudson if you want). There's a fair chance those first two guys would be your starting tackles right now. Okafor could play guard. Kerstetter could have redshirted. Etc. 

So the recruiting rankings don't tell the whole story. To be sure, too many guys haven't been adequately developed. That's hardly the fault of the coaches who've had one spring, summer and part of a fall with them. And it's a rare athlete who can reach his potential when he's playing for a new position coach in a new system every year or two. 

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The OL is in such a disarray, it doesn't matter who is calling plays.  If the team trainers can get the grass stains out of our QB's jerseys, it will be a successful season.  Our OL is wounded and lacks depth, they're getting punked and have given up 28 sacks for -197 yards with three games to play.  You can't fix that without the pieces to plug in.

 

 

Games are won and lost in the trenches.  We have some bodies, not serviceable players and it's rather obvious.

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5 minutes ago, TexExSpur said:

The OL is in such a disarray, it doesn't matter who is calling plays.  If the team trainers can get the grass stains out of our QB's jerseys, it will be a successful season.  Our OL is wounded and lacks depth, they're getting punked and have given up 28 sacks for -197 yards with three games to play.  You can't fix that without the pieces to plug in.

 

 

Games are won and lost in the trenches.  We have some bodies, not serviceable players and it's rather obvious.

Unfortunately, the last sentence sums it up. 

And, yet, people think a new OC or different plays would make a huge difference, 

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2 hours ago, North Texas Golfer said:

Unfortunately, the last sentence sums it up. 

And, yet, people think a new OC or different plays would make a huge difference, 

I have been down on Beck for awhile. 

I realize the guys up front are either young and not developed or have hit their ceiling on potential but just are not that good. 

Its hard to grade Beck fairly in this environment but the two issues are not automatically mutually exclusive.   There are ways to get the ball out faster.  I thought Herman was a guru so its not squarely on Beck.  We cant find one successful way to quick hit WR's or RB's for short gains?   

One example:

There were a few plays where the WR's see the blitz coming and they never break off routes or even look at the QB.  Lil J did it twice vs TCU from what I saw.  Is that a player problem or coaching problem?  Lil J is one of favorite WRs but still you gotta help the QB out.  That should not be happening 9 games into the season and that blame cant purely be on the OL.  

More examples:

Why are we going uptempo so much it seems like we are more unprepared for it than the defense is. 

We are not fooling anyone in the wildcat or with Heard at QB for that matter.  We all knows its a run.

Maybe its the garbage can method.  Try everything and see what works and what doesnt.  But damn cant any coach do that?

 

@Daniel Seahorn

When is Elijah Rodriquez expected back?  Conner will probably be for WV, right?

 

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11 minutes ago, DMAC said:

I have been down on Beck for awhile. 

I realize the guys up front are either young and not developed or have hit their ceiling on potential but just are not that good. 

Its hard to grade Beck fairly in this environment but the two issues are not automatically mutually exclusive.   There are ways to get the ball out faster.  I thought Herman was a guru so its not squarely on Beck.  We cant find one successful way to quick hit WR's or RB's for short gains?   

One example:

There were a few plays where the WR's see the blitz coming and they never break off routes or even look at the QB.  Lil J did it twice vs TCU from what I saw.  Is that a player problem or coaching problem?  Lil J is one of favorite WRs but still you gotta help the QB out.  That should not be happening 9 games into the season and that blame cant purely be on the OL.  

More examples:

Why are we going uptempo so much it seems like we are more unprepared for it than the defense is. 

We are not fooling anyone in the wildcat or with Heard at QB for that matter.  We all knows its a run.

Maybe its the garbage can method.  Try everything and see what works and what doesnt.  But damn cant any coach do that?

 

And they haven't tried "everything" imo...

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I am just throwing out ideas and have no clue how feasible it might be. 

We use Moore as a blocking TE. 

Why not move Okafor to TE just as another blocker and just run two blocking 2 TE's along with Moore.  Atleast it would help out the OT's.  We continuously leave our OT on a island 1v1 and that isnt working.

All I am saying is try something different, atleast be unpredictable.

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1 hour ago, DMAC said:

I am just throwing out ideas and have no clue how feasible it might be. 

We use Moore as a blocking TE. 

Why not move Okafor to TE just as another blocker and just run two blocking 2 TE's along with Moore.  Atleast it would help out the OT's.  We continuously leave our OT on a island 1v1 and that isnt working.

All I am saying is try something different, atleast be unpredictable.

Sounds like you're asking this staff to run a power formation with linemen who were actually recruited to run power...imagine that.  Nah, we'll continue to run zone schemes until they begin to work next year...

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Y'all know Heard's my guy.  And to be honest, I don't necessarily think he's "the answer".  But I do know that the offense seems to run better with Sam because of his mobility.  And as far as trying something new, I don't understand why Heard doesn't get the shot.  Herman made the comment in yesterday's press conference that Heard's action at qb is dependent on the health of the other 2 qb's; of which we only have have 2.  What's the difference who the 2 are, whether it's Shane and Sam or Shane and Heard.  If Heard starts and is injured then you have Shane and vice versa.  IDK, I guess I don't understand his reasoning.  Please help me out.

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I am with you on this.  

If we actually gave Heard the chance to throw more he would be more effective as a scrambler and runner. 

We have big WR's.  Lil J, Collin, and Joe could go up get those passes.

I saw the presser and wandered the same thing.  Putting Heard when everyone knows he is going run isnt going to work.   I believe Warren has more pass attempts on trick plays than Heard does.

He needs more than 1 pass attempt in the 4 games he has come in for a few plays.  He might surprise us all.  

In the end its a mystery with the coaches.  Just like how Carter and Young didnt see any considerable playing time until the last 2 games. 

Did they just improve the last games or was it always there but coaches refused to play them?  My guess is the latter.

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3 minutes ago, DMAC said:

I am with you on this.  

If we actually gave Heard the chance to throw more he would be more effective as a scrambler and runner. 

We have big WR's.  Lil J, Collin, and Joe could go up get those passes.

I saw the presser and wandered the same thing.  Putting Heard when everyone knows he is going run isnt going to work. 

He needs more than 1 pass attempt in the 4 games he has come in for a few plays.  He might surprise us all.  

In the end its a mystery with the coaches.  Just like how Carter and Young didnt see any considerable playing time until the last 2 games. 

Did they just improve the last games or was it always there but coaches refused to play them?  My guess is the latter.

As much as we all like Sam, his pass percentage sucks (56%, 6 TD, 4 INT).  I just don't see Heard being worse in that regard ESPECIALLY considering he's won games, big games, here as a qb. In 2015 he 58%, 5 TD, 5 INT btw...

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5 minutes ago, Dbut82 said:

As much as we all like Sam, his pass percentage sucks (56%, 6 TD, 4 INT).  I just don't see Heard being worse in that regard ESPECIALLY considering he's won games, big games, here as a qb. In 2015 he 58%, 5 TD, 5 INT btw...

Whats our 3 and out percentage?  I am sure its really bad anyways.  What would it hurt to try him out.  Kansas would be a good game to try it out on.

 

We have punted 53 times this year.  San Jose State has punted 61.  

I couldnt find a stats for 3 and outs though

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11 minutes ago, DMAC said:

Whats our 3 and out percentage?  I am sure its really bad anyways.  What would it hurt to try him out.  Kansas would be a good game to try it out on.

 

We have punted 53 times this year.  San Jose State has punted 61.  

I couldnt find a stats for 3 and outs though

Texas is 58th in 3rd down conversion percentage.  Middle of the pack.  They're 62 of 154 on 3rd down.  .403

on the other hand...

TCU is 6th in the nation at 68 of 136 and batting .500

 

As for punts, he's one hell of a weapon...But we would like to see that number cut in half with a more efficient "scoring offense".

 

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15 minutes ago, TexExSpur said:

Texas is 58th in 3rd down conversion percentage.  Middle of the pack.  They're 62 of 154 on 3rd down.  .403

on the other hand...

TCU is 6th in the nation at 68 of 136 and batting .500

 

As for punts, he's one hell of a weapon...But we would like to see that number cut in half with a more efficient "scoring offense".

 

I remember thinking TCU wouldnt be near as good without Boykin.  They did drop off some but not much. 

Their defense seems to be very good every year with Patterson.

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3 minutes ago, DMAC said:

I remember thinking TCU wouldnt be near as good without Boykin.  They did drop off some but not much. 

Their defense seems to be very good every year with Patterson.

They had a little glitch in personal when Bumpass moved on from football, but GP is defense.

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1 hour ago, DMAC said:

Whats our 3 and out percentage?  I am sure its really bad anyways.  What would it hurt to try him out.  Kansas would be a good game to try it out on.

 

We have punted 53 times this year.  San Jose State has punted 61.  

I couldnt find a stats for 3 and outs though

I agree. What would it hurt? And I agree that Kansas is a good game to try him out.  As was Baylor a few weeks ago...

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8 hours ago, Ryan Bridges said:

Go through those classes and remove the guys who never made it to campus, washed out or haven't stayed healthy enough to contribute and you get a slightly different picture. The 2014 class drops into the 30s in national ranking if you take out the guys who didn't make it to campus or washed out when Strong was hired. Those are your seniors and redshirt juniors right now.

You can remove 10 blue chips from the 2015-16 classes (counting Kirk Johnson and Patrick Hudson because of injury), plus two more from 2014 (Roberson and Catalon). Far more significantly, erase three offensive linemen (Delance, Hodges, Major; add Hudson if you want). There's a fair chance those first two guys would be your starting tackles right now. Okafor could play guard. Kerstetter could have redshirted. Etc. 

So the recruiting rankings don't tell the whole story. To be sure, too many guys haven't been adequately developed. That's hardly the fault of the coaches who've had one spring, summer and part of a fall with them. And it's a rare athlete who can reach his potential when he's playing for a new position coach in a new system every year or two. 

Injuries and attrition happen at every program. There is no doubt that our coaching staff instability has caused more attrition and hindered player development. I'm certainly not blaming our current staff for the lack of player development.

The post I was commenting on stated our coaches were trying to "stay in games with less than blue chip talent...with no such athletes on offense.". I can see why someone might think we are without talent by watching our poor performance during games but that is not the case. The disparity of talent between us and any other Big 12 opponent, except OU, is huge. Last year our recruiting class was one of the worst in the history of our program but it was still the 2nd best in the conference. In 2014 OU, Baylor, and OK State were the only teams above 40 in the national rankings. In 15-16 us and OU were the only programs inside the top 30 nationally. Our injuries and attrition have not left us with a roster of scrubs. We may not have our fastest horse in the race but we are not racing with mules.

I hate that we have been devastated by injuries especially on the offensive line. I wish we could have had a consistent staff in place the past 5 years and the system was fully implemented with the right personnel. However, I am not going to excuse the complete lack of any semblance for a consistent offense on our lack of talent. We can score 24 points against OU and 10 against OSU? How is that even possible? Vahe played sick and Porter was out (which probably helped us) but other than that it was the same crap talent. 

What type of recruiting classes will enable us to compete in the Big 12? Does our entire O-Line have to be injury free? Is this an offensive system that takes 3 - 5 years to install? I'm not asking about National relevance or playoff potential just scoring 20 points consistently.

 

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