to all of the doubters of strong

[J.B. TexasEx]

i'm not a recruitnik either. other than measurables like height, weight, 40-time there aren't scientific, fact-based formulas. it's opinion.

Somebody alluded to this in another thread, but think how often nfl personnel departments are wrong on the nfl draft? these are fulltime staffs that study college seniors and juniors year round. and they whiff on evals often.

now, compare that to a Rivals writer sitting in a room looking at a few highlight reels of thousands of high school seniors and juniors. sure, the VYs and the adrian petersons of the world could be identified by any idiot. beyond those types, it's a huge crapshoot.

i'm in the minority for message board guys, but getting lathered up over projecting what a 17-yr old might turn into as a 21-year old seems futile.

Agreed

Sometimes, kids are moved to other positions too.  Remember when everyone raved about how Patterson and TCU turned HS safeties into LBs and LBs into DEs?  How do the recruiting services account for that?

Louisville's DE, Marcus Smith, is another great example.  You can't measure heart.

 

[doc longhorn]

I've gotta ask because I'm not a recruitnik.

What makes 247's rankings any better than Rivals or ESPN's?  Do they use a more scientific, fact-based formula when passing out grades?  For those who do follow recruiting closely, what service is the best?

I like to form my own opinions based on HUDL and YouTube clips, but that doesn't tell a recruit's full story, either.  How tough was the competition?  What are his work habits?  Does he take his classwork seriously?

Not for nothing, but both Poona and D'Onta had to take summer school classes to qualify at UT.  That's not a good sign in my book, but I trust that CFS had fully vetted them before NSD.

LOL!  You have asked the salient questions.

I find the recruiting boards interesting, but that is where it ends for me.  I realize I am an old curmudgeon, but I have lived long enough to observe who are the consistantly more successful coaches and how THEY evaluate and develop the talent they bring in.  I prefer looking at coaches that are not like Saban - who has the luxury of throwing out blanket offers and then cherry picking the players he really wants. 

This is a short list and I submit a helluva a lot more accurate than recruiting services.  The proof is in the pudding, as it were.

A few of the coaches I admire for their evaluations:

Stoops

Mora

Myer

Patterson

Petersen

Briles

These are just a few and I am sure ya'll can come up with more - but you get my point.  You don't need recruiting services to determine the best players - just find out who the top evaluaters are offering and the systems they employ.

 

[North Texas Golfer]

LOL!  You have asked the salient questions.

I find the recruiting boards interesting, but that is where it ends for me.  I realize I am an old curmudgeon, but I have lived long enough to observe who are the consistantly more successful coaches and how THEY evaluate and develop the talent they bring in.  I prefer looking at coaches that are not like Saban - who has the luxury of throwing out blanket offers and then cherry picking the players he really wants. 

This is a short list and I submit a helluva a lot more accurate than recruiting services.  The proof is in the pudding, as it were.

A few of the coaches I admire for their evaluations:

Stoops

Mora

Myer

Patterson

Petersen

Briles

These are just a few and I am sure ya'll can come up with more - but you get my point.  You don't need recruiting services to determine the best players - just find out who the top evaluaters are offering and the systems they employ.

Bingo! Instead of looking at the rankings of recruiting services, look at their "offers". While not foolproof, that will still give you a much better gauge of how well the kid is regarded, i.e. ranked. The best players will have the most offers from the top evaluators and schools. Duh! But then, like Doc said, they still have to be developed.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

A few of the coaches I admire for their evaluations:

Stoops

Mora

Meyer

Patterson

Petersen

Briles

Good list, but I'd have David Shaw, Jimbo Fisher, and Mark Dantonio on mine too.

 

[doc longhorn]

Good list, but I'd have David Shaw, Jimbo Fisher, and Mark Dantonio on mine too.

And, hopefully, we can someday add Charlie Strong to that list as well.

I like his chances.

 

[echeese]

I've gotta ask because I'm not a recruitnik.

What makes 247's rankings any better than Rivals or ESPN's?  Do they use a more scientific, fact-based formula when passing out grades?  For those who do follow recruiting closely, what service is the best?

I like 24/7's best because their composite includes their own evaluations, Rivals and a couple others . .. more a consensus. . . 

But I also agree that coaches are a great source. . .the problem is. . .they tend to offer 3-5 times as many kids as they have ships so not sure carpet bombings tells you who the REALLY like. . . .

And it's a fair point. . there is no perfect system .. .look at how often the NFL screws it up and they are dealing with a far more "finished" product.

I was trying to make the point that using one single metric does not create a very accurate picture .. . . though it does lead to some serious running around like a chicken with your head cut off ..  .

CFS recruited and developed 2 players who in 3 years became 1st round NFL picks as an HC. . .as a DC he has a LONG and impressive record of kids he put in the show. . . .

Frankly today, I think he can make a BETTER case as an evaluator and developer than some of the coaches named including the stooper . .. and Mora. . .and DiAntonio. . . .he certainly isn't taking a back seat to any .. . 

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

CFS recruited and developed 2 players who in 3 years became 1st round NFL picks as an HC. . .as a DC he has a LONG and impressive record of kids he put in the show. . . .

I'm really surprised by how few defensive players, especially DL, have committed to UT thus far.  I thought D players would be lining up to play for CFS!  I expect this situation will change, but it's definitely a concern right now.

 

[primal defense]

And, hopefully, we can someday add Charlie Strong to that list as well.

I like his chances.

Three NFL first round picks from his first recruiting class, two of them three star recruits. I would say is a pretty good start.

 

[echeese]

Past 5 years, CFS has done significantly better than Stooper on the D side of the ball . . .

Interesting that Stooper's teams have become much much more offensive oriented programs and frankly his performance is not really that impressive save a nice bowl win over Bama this year.. . .

 

[LHornjack]

Count me as one that is concerned about our recruiting....not obsessively so, but think it is legit at this point to have some level of concern....

I am not concerned with who we didn't get, but am concerned about who is ultimately going to be on the 40 acres...

Admittedly I haven't checked in a while on the ratings, the last I did check according to rivals our star rating average was 3.11. If it has changed dramatically then apologize in advance...But 3.11 is the lowest in pretty much forever. Yes I know that 247 had them higher, so room for debate.

Yes there is room for development of players which hasn't been done well in years...

Yes there are exceptions of players and teams, but the predominance of championships have been won by teams filled with Elite rosters...Bama, LSU, Florida St, Florida, Texas, USC and so on...You just have to have elite players to stay up there in contention...

We need to get elite, not a roster full to develop...

I hope Strong blows my concern completely out of the water....and I get to come back and eat my words...

I think he will improve, but it needs to happen soon, or our recovery time will be hindered.

 

[monarch]

LHornjack!​

 

[North Texas Golfer]

Count me as one that is concerned about our recruiting....not obsessively so, but think it is legit at this point to have some level of concern....

I am not concerned with who we didn't get, but am concerned about who is ultimately going to be on the 40 acres...

Admittedly I haven't checked in a while on the ratings, the last I did check according to rivals our star rating average was 3.11. If it has changed dramatically then apologize in advance...But 3.11 is the lowest in pretty much forever. Yes I know that 247 had them higher, so room for debate.

Yes there is room for development of players which hasn't been done well in years...

Yes there are exceptions of players and teams, but the predominance of championships have been won by teams filled with Elite rosters...Bama, LSU, Florida St, Florida, Texas, USC and so on...You just have to have elite players to stay up there in contention...

We need to get elite, not a roster full to develop...

I hope Strong blows my concern completely out of the water....and I get to come back and eat my words...

I think he will improve, but it needs to happen soon, or our recovery time will be hindered.

LHornjack gets it. You need elite players to win national championships! And until we see elite players committing to Texas there should be some level of concern.

 

[echeese]

Admittedly I haven't checked in a while on the ratings, the last I did check according to rivals our star rating average was 3.11. If it has changed dramatically then apologize in advance...But 3.11 is the lowest in pretty much forever. Yes I know that 247 had them higher, so room for debate.

3.27 today and that is AFTER the addition of another 3 star kid who will likely finish as a 4 star. . . 

And yes, both 24/7 and ESPN have our classes ranked higher today .. . 

For perspective.. ..that puts TEXAS AHEAD of 3 of the supposed Top 10 Rivals classes and 7 of the Top 20 right now with 11 recruits. . .we likely go 25 in this class so we aren't even half way yet.

And yes, you do need "elite" players. . .I'd say Heard certainly qualifies. . .

3 points to consider. . .

Not unlike the old days of Bobby Bowden . ..while Mack liked his classes signed up early. . . . CFS is taking his time. . . 

We aren't even halfway through this recruiting class yet. . . . .

And even Rivals (which gives us the lowest grades today) is likely moving 3-4 of our guys up a notch .. . .

So for all you chicken littles. . . . .this means the class is actually much better than you realize. . . .

 

[LHornjack]

Thanks for counterpoint Cheese....

Agree

on Heard, think he will be special,

More offers, less early commits does takes some getting used too.

The key will be how it looks on signing day....

Multiple elites are essential

Disagree - Don't feel like Chicken Little but I have certainly been called worse

 

[echeese]

Thanks for counterpoint Cheese....

Disagree - Don't feel like Chicken Little but I have certainly been called worse

Was intended as a counter point but I typed that poorly and did not mean to include you in the chicken little category . . .so that is my bad. . . 

We do have some chicken little's running around screaming the sky is falling. . . .which isn't the same as addressing concerns. . .