Lodge to A&M

[Randolph Duke]

A coach can bring in sub par talent and coach them up to produce good statistics when he is playing against Memphis, U of H, Eastern Kentucky and the like. By losing every single instate recruiting battle for top talent, Strong is looking at the prospect of bringing in subpar talent and having to coach them up to beat far better teams than he has ever faced week in and week out.

I want to believe that Strong will succeed at Texas, but I am basing my evaluation of his performance on results. Not effort, not track record, but results. He isn't winning recruiting battles, despite his past results, despite putting three players into the first round and despite having all the advantages being coach of Texas offers. I'm not a Sumlin guy. I think he epitomizes what is wrong with college football, not what is right. I don't want him anywhere close to the 40 acres. But if anyone really believes we don't have to win recruiting battles and bring in the players Charlie Strong himself believes he needs to run his system because we have a coach who can win with sub par talent, you are nuts.

Until Charlie Strong shows he can recruit in Texas, I'm not buying into the hype. The results so far are poor. He isn't connecting with the state's top talent. That simply can't be denied.

 

[utisdabomb12]

A coach can bring in sub par talent and coach them up to produce good statistics when he is playing against Memphis, U of H, Eastern Kentucky and the like. By losing every single instate recruiting battle for top talent, Strong is looking at the prospect of bringing in subpar talent and having to coach them up to beat far better teams than he has ever faced week in and week out.

I want to believe that Strong will succeed at Texas, but I am basing my evaluation of his performance on results. Not effort, not track record, but results. He isn't winning recruiting battles, despite his past results, despite putting three players into the first round and despite having all the advantages being coach of Texas offers. I'm not a Sumlin guy. I think he epitomizes what is wrong with college football, not what is right. I don't want him anywhere close to the 40 acres. But if anyone really believes we don't have to win recruiting battles and bring in the players Charlie Strong himself believes he needs to run his system because we have a coach who can win with sub par talent, you are nuts.

Until Charlie Strong shows he can recruit in Texas, I'm not buying into the hype. The results so far are poor. He isn't connecting with the state's top talent. That simply can't be denied.

This makes no sense. 

1-Why does he have to coach up talent to begin with? Strong has the best recruiting class in the Big 12 right now, our competition. Matter of fact, Strong has the best recruiting class in comparison with anyone on our schedule. Your whole assumption is wrong. Sure the teams he will face are better but the idea that Strong must "coach up" talent is off base. 

2-Strong didn't have a problem putting a beat down on bigger schools like Miami and Florida while at Louisville. It's not like he just beat the likes of Memphis, Houston and Eastern Kentucky. 

3-"I base my evaluation on results". That's the problem you are basing your evaluation on the wrong results. Pretty sure they don't give out trophies for winning a few head to head battles in recruiting. The only thing that matters are results on the field. Strong is never going to be a top 5 recruiter, that's not who he is. Strong develops players, that's how he wins. If you are basing your evaluation on just recruiting Strong has no chance of succeeding. 

4-Again, not sure why you keep using the rhetoric of sub-par talent? Texas has a top 15 class currently, and a good chance to still be a top 10 class based on potential commits. 

5-You are equating success entirely too much with recruiting. Recruiting isn't the end all be all. Sure it matters, but there are also other things that matter. A prime example of this is A&M. Go and check out how many players they've lost from their 2012 and 2013 classes. A&M is essentially starting over with their 2014 class because of how much they lost.

My biggest problem is  you seem to be judging Strong on just recruiting. That's not how you judge a coach. If we used that paradigm for Mack Brown, he would still be the coach. Similarly, if we used that paradigm coaches like Briles and Peterson would be complete failures. 

 

[armadillo slim]

we need a moratorium on premature judgements.  that's what the other sites do.

we hired the guy.  if you don't agree with the hire, tough.  it's over.  now let him have some time to change things.

 

[utisdabomb12]

we need a moratorium on premature judgements.  that's what the other sites do.

we hired the guy.  if you don't agree with the hire, tough.  it's over.  now let him have some time to change things.

The funniest thing is he hasn't even coached a game. 

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

It's a message board - just a fun forum to express and articulate opinions and ideas.

RD & Big Mike feel very strongly that our recruiting has been sub-par.  Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't.  For every 5* failure you can identify 3* guys who "overachieved".  Personally, I'd like to see more emphasis on player development than anointing unproven freshmen.  Let's focus on where the rubber meets the road, too, OL and DL.  IMHO, WRs like Lodge are easier to find.  If not in TX, than somewhere in the southeast where CFS has good recruiting connections.

Coach Moorer himself is a perfect example.  He was a walk-on, All-SEC linebacker for Florida.  I'm firmly in the "Let's give Moorer and Strong a chance to show what they can do" camp.  At the end of the day, we all want what's best for UT.

aggie can celebrate their "recruiting championships" while players are dropping out of the program and being dismissed.  We had a Coach February once, too.

Hook 'Em

 

[streettopeschel]

The funniest thing is he hasn't even coached a game. 

that's irrelevant. he sucks anyway.

 

[Randolph Duke]

It's a message board - just a fun forum to express and articulate opinions and ideas.

RD & Big Mike feel very strongly that our recruiting has been sub-par.  Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't.  For every 5* failure you can identify 3* guys who "overachieved".  Personally, I'd like to see more emphasis on player development than anointing unproven freshmen.  Let's focus on where the rubber meets the road, too, OL and DL.  IMHO, WRs like Lodge are easier to find.  If not in TX, than somewhere in the southeast where CFS has good recruiting connections.

Coach Moorer himself is a perfect example.  He was a walk-on, All-SEC linebacker for Florida.  I'm firmly in the "Let's give Moorer and Strong a chance to show what they can do" camp.  At the end of the day, we all want what's best for UT.

aggie can celebrate their "recruiting championships" while players are dropping out of the program and being dismissed.  We had a Coach February once, too.

Hook 'Em

I am just stunned that none of the top 25 prospects in the state felt the vision Coach Strong has for the program was compelling enough to risk their careers in his hands, even knowing Coach Strong had three first round draft choices in the NFL draft. Adding to that is that players actually believe they would be taking less risk by trusting their careers with Kevin Sumlin, whose overall control of the team is in huge doubt over at the cow college. "Recruiting championships" aren't what I am concerned about. What concerns me is the rejection by all of the state's top 25 prospects of Strong's vision for the program. To succeed, Coach Strong will have to inspire confidence and so far, the top instate recruits unanimously gave a vote of no confidence in Charlie Strong. He is 2 for 14 in head to head recruiting battles against the cow college.

In addition to the ability inspire confidence in his vision for the program, overall control of the program, player development, game scheming, the ability to make adjustments to the game plan on the fly, demonstrated player command of fundamentals and the ability to move players from one position to another and having the player be even more successful at the new position are all metrics I use to judge the coach's performance. The results are early and incomplete. But what we have seen so far is not what I expected in a coach who was supposedly one of, if not the single best in the game. He seems to have taken control of the program in an impressive fashion. He seems to be failing to inspire confidence in his vision for the program to the point he is losing talented prospects to lesser coaches and lesser programs. And yes, I am talking about Sumlin and the cow college. 

 

[doc longhorn]

So lodge doesn't have a shot at getting a degree?

That seems presumptuous.

Lodge is an excellent aggie get.  He has as much chance to get a degree as several UT recruits do.

 

[utisdabomb12]

I am just stunned that none of the top 25 prospects in the state felt the vision Coach Strong has for the program was compelling enough to risk their careers in his hands, even knowing Coach Strong had three first round draft choices in the NFL draft. Adding to that is that players actually believe they would be taking less risk by trusting their careers with Kevin Sumlin, whose overall control of the team is in huge doubt over at the cow college. "Recruiting championships" aren't what I am concerned about. What concerns me is the rejection by all of the state's top 25 prospects of Strong's vision for the program. To succeed, Coach Strong will have to inspire confidence and so far, the top instate recruits unanimously gave a vote of no confidence in Charlie Strong. He is 2 for 14 in head to head recruiting battles against the cow college.

In addition to the ability inspire confidence in his vision for the program, overall control of the program, player development, game scheming, the ability to make adjustments to the game plan on the fly, demonstrated player command of fundamentals and the ability to move players from one position to another and having the player be even more successful at the new position are all metrics I use to judge the coach's performance. The results are early and incomplete. But what we have seen so far is not what I expected in a coach who was supposedly one of, if not the single best in the game. He seems to have taken control of the program in an impressive fashion. He seems to be failing to inspire confidence in his vision for the program to the point he is losing talented prospects to lesser coaches and lesser programs. 

1-Not real sure why you think "none of the top 25 prospects in the state felt the vision of Coach Strong". Weathersby and Vahe are both top 25 players in Texas. Texas will probably also get Warren and Wheeler who are top 25 recruits in Texas. Texas is also still in the game for Sheffield, Jefferson, Jamabo, Boyd, and Strickland. I bet we end up with 5 top 25 recruits in the state if not more. So not really sure where you are coming from. 

2-"2 for 14 in state battles". You are getting entirely too caught up in losing battles to Aggy, especially this early in Strong's tenure. 

3-"Failing to inspire confidence".  Jumping to that conclusion in June. When Texas ends up with a top 10 recruiting class will you change your narrative? 

 

[doc longhorn]

Hes been on the job six months and its time to throw him out?  

LOL!  I couldn't have said it better.  He has yet to coach his first football game and the hand wringers want to ax him.

Let's look at it in a different light.  Sumlin is outrecruiting him today, but even the aggys are nervous about him.  And who I think is the most nervous is Bob Stoops.

That's good enough for me.

Would Saban have recruited better?  Sure, his name carries a lot of weight.  But Saban isn't here and what more do you think Strong should do?  Re-establish the country club atmosphere?  Recruit in a Harrier jet?  Hire Nickleback to play at the practices?

I love what I hear about Strong, myself, and I will withhold judgment until I see his product on the field.

 

[Randolph Duke]

Lodge is an excellent aggie get.  He has as much chance to get a degree as several UT recruits do.

My question about Lodge getting a degree is because of his soon-to-be close association with the likes of Speedy Noil. Speedy's decision was between LSU and aggy, both programs that don't care about multiple arrests or failed drug tests. Speedy wasn't on campus six weeks before he was involved with the police when he was out partying with Golden and Claiborne on the night Golden got arrested. Need I remind anyone of the character of Mr. Golden or Mr. Claiborne. I have my concerns about the character of Mr. Noil. In my humble opinion, Mr. Lodge could pick a better group of individuals with whom to associate with. If his aspirations are to obtain a college degree, he could have found an environment more favorable to overcoming the odds student athletes at any school, let along schools like aggy, face. 

 

[Randolph Duke]

1-Not real sure why you think "none of the top 25 prospects in the state felt the vision of Coach Strong". Weathersby and Vahe are both top 25 players in Texas. Texas will probably also get Warren and Wheeler who are top 25 recruits in Texas. Texas is also still in the game for Sheffield, Jefferson, Jamabo, Boyd, and Strickland. I bet we end up with 5 top 25 recruits in the state if not more. So not really sure where you are coming from. 

2-"2 for 14 in state battles". You are getting entirely too caught up in losing battles to Aggy, especially this early in Strong's tenure. 

3-"Failing to inspire confidence".  Jumping to that conclusion in June. When Texas ends up with a top 10 recruiting class will you change your narrative? 

1- "When a new coach is hired, especially at a place like The University of Texas, it usually creates excitement with prospects and high school coaches on the recruiting trail. Unfortunately for the Longhorns, that buzz isn’t there."

"Texas has yet to gain a commit from a top-10 in-state player. To make matters worse, Strong’s staff is losing commits to conference rivals and SEC powers in Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, LSU and Oklahoma."

“I thought [strong] needed to bring in guys that can stand toe-to-toe against A&M, LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma and all the other top teams that recruit in Texas,†the coach said. “He needed guys that had deep ties with the high school coaches in Texas. Instead, he got a lot of coaches that can win recruiting battles against Cincinnati, UCF and teams like that. This is the Big 12, not the AAC.â€

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfrecruiting/on-the-trail/post/_/id/55978/texas-has-a-texas-recruiting-problem

I'm not making this stuff up, people. It is the growing opinion of where the program stands. I'm not saying all is lost. I'm saying his recruiting prowess isn't what one would expect from one of the top coaches in all of college football who just had three first round NFL draft selections. Something isn't right. 

 

[utisdabomb12]

1- "When a new coach is hired, especially at a place like The University of Texas, it usually creates excitement with prospects and high school coaches on the recruiting trail. Unfortunately for the Longhorns, that buzz isn’t there."

"Texas has yet to gain a commit from a top-10 in-state player. To make matters worse, Strong’s staff is losing commits to conference rivals and SEC powers in Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, LSU and Oklahoma."

“I thought [strong] needed to bring in guys that can stand toe-to-toe against A&M, LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma and all the other top teams that recruit in Texas,†the coach said. “He needed guys that had deep ties with the high school coaches in Texas. Instead, he got a lot of coaches that can win recruiting battles against Cincinnati, UCF and teams like that. This is the Big 12, not the AAC.â€

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfrecruiting/on-the-trail/post/_/id/55978/texas-has-a-texas-recruiting-problem

I'm not making this stuff up, people. It is the growing opinion of where the program stands. I'm not saying all is lost. I'm saying his recruiting prowess isn't what one would expect from one of the top coaches in all of college football who just had three first round NFL draft selections. Something isn't right. 

You said none of the top 25 recruits felt Strong's  vision. That's just no true. 

You lose recruits sometimes. So what if we lose some recruits to Tech, Oklahoma State and Oklahoma. You can't win them all. Want to know something, we still have a better recruiting class than all three of those teams which are our competition. You act like Texas doesn't even have a top 25 class. They are at 14 right now, with a good chance to finish in the top 10. Breathe. 

 

[Pancho Negro]

I've seen everything. Randy Duke wants to fire Strong because "he can't get it done" when he hasn't coached not 1 football game. Not only that, Duke is implying that Strong "can't get it done" is being based on 6 months on the job at that's it.

Unbelievable. Such fantastic logic. 

I'm embarrassed as an alum. 

 

[killrjoe]

Sumlin is offering a clear set of expectations - don't worry about classes, take classes online. Don't worry about drug tests, they aren't an issue. Strong is playing guidance counselor and the kids are choosing the easier route. I get it. A lot of kids can't cut it academically and taking the aggy route is their best choice. But Strong isn't killing it with the kids who actually have the potential to be students and can stay out of jail. We aren't winning recruiting battles with Stanford. We aren't winning recruiting battles with anyone, with the exception of the OG we offered yesterday we are fighting with Louisiana Tech and North Texas to get him to come to UT. My point is, what is Charlie Strong doing that seems to indicate he is succeeding at anything? Baylor is kicking our ass for top instate talent. Aggy is crushing us. 

Any kid who is committed to Texas has to be asking himself what all the others see and they missed. I can understand offensive skill positions not wanting to play for Shawn Watson. Personally, I don't even expect Shawn Watson to last the season this fall. He has no business on the UT payroll. But why isn't Charlie Strong killing in on defensive recruits? It seems none of the kids with potential wants to risk playing for Charlie Strong. 

Well, I'll say it again, there's no way Strong is going to succeed so let's just shut the damn place down.

 

[Randolph Duke]

Well, I'll say it again, there's no way Strong is going to succeed so let's just shut the damn place down.

Or, alternatively, identify the problem and fix it. 

 

[echeese]

If CFS' was going the Mack route and drawing a line in the sand with Texas kids, Duke might have a point. . . 

But CFS isn't, he's chasing talent where it is. . .

Now it is a concern that we are not landing in-state talent like we did in the past but we sit today with back to back top flight QBs (recruiting starts with QBs) and we have some of the top 2016 QBs looking hard at playing for Shawn Watson .. . a coach many of the coach experts claims sucks. . . clearly top flight QBs don't think so. . 

We have a pair of 4 star OLs, and we know it starts up front. . . 

But the real story is the 2016 kids. . . .reports are glowing from the kids who have camped with us so far. . .this will be the 1st "real" stamp CFS will put on the team.

As for CFS/UL's record. . . .you can talk all the mindless crap you want . ..Ask Coach Boom and Miami how freaking good CFS is. . .he ran both out of the stadium. . .oh yeah and he took a team that went 4-8 for 3 years before he arrived (12-24 for those weak in math) and bumped them up to 30-9. . . while putting 3 players into the 1st round of the NFL draft. . .  .

But I recall some of the critics of Mack and GD back in 2002/2003 who said we should fire them and go get Steve Superior. . . .who would have been a horrid hire .. . yeah he and Vince would have been Oil & Water. . . . . Think TEXAS took the right path then (2nd best 10 year run in our history) .. .and think we're on the right path now. . .

It would be nice to see CFS coach at least one game first. . . and news flash. . . .I'll wager he has a MUCH better eye for talent than 99% of we posters (maybe more). ..

OTOH, Sumlin is selling. . .come to aggie. . .no rules. . .flashy offense. . . .no shot at a ring . .. .hell .. . no shot at a division crown but it's about sizzle in Dead Dog Heaven. . .not steak .. . .

 

[Juan]

@EricNahlin --  Aggies on Twitter right now:

 

[MBHORNSFAN]

Add #1 player in Texas for 2016 to the list. OL Greg Little just committed to aggy. I know rankings and stars don't matter.

 

[J.B. TexasEx]

LOL!  I couldn't have said it better.  He has yet to coach his first football game and the hand wringers want to ax him.

Let's look at it in a different light.  Sumlin is outrecruiting him today, but even the aggys are nervous about him.  And who I think is the most nervous is Bob Stoops.

That's good enough for me.

Would Saban have recruited better?  Sure, his name carries a lot of weight.  But Saban isn't here and what more do you think Strong should do?  Re-establish the country club atmosphere?  Recruit in a Harrier jet?  Hire Nickleback to play at the practices?

I love what I hear about Strong, myself, and I will withhold judgment until I see his product on the field.

Don't forget the Mad Hatter, Les Miles, taking shots at CFS.  They all will be feeling the heat in due time.  Patience, my friends.