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Harrison Wier

Five Thoughts: West Virginia

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8 hours ago, Harrison Wier said:

It seems Orlando benefited greatly from having the right personnel for his scheme last season. Malik Jefferson was a much bigger piece than some give him credit for. Now, Orlando doesn’t have the right personnel for his scheme and it’s showing. 

Herman said during the off season that his number one concern after QB was replacing Malik and Poona. I was surprised since I thought it would be the OL since it was so bad last year that he had to hire a new OL coach.

That stuck in my mind and now I can see why Herman was concerned with replacing them.

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8 hours ago, Harrison Wier said:

It seems Orlando benefited greatly from having the right personnel for his scheme last season. Malik Jefferson was a much bigger piece than some give him credit for. Now, Orlando doesn’t have the right personnel for his scheme and it’s showing. 

This is true. Imagine this defense with Poona and MJ still in it.

I miss them both.

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14 hours ago, 83Dee said:

If he leaves I’d advise him to hire a good DC that runs something other than a 3-2.  I have heard that the 3-2 has difficulty slowing down the run.  

Not if you have the right personnel, which he had last year. That defense last year was salty.

3-2 looks bad when you have blown assignments and/or players getting whipped. Of course, any scheme looks bad when you have that.

Orlando does best when he's in attack mode. We really haven't seen that in a couple of games. He's been on his heels. To take a quote from Remember the Titans . . "they're on to your game. You need to shake things up."

 

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5 hours ago, dillohorn said:

Everybody has injuries at this time of year.

Yes they do, however they don't have a reputation of having tough practices during the year.  Common sense says that the more hits you take during the game and practice can cause more injuries and fatigue during the year.

We may have to get use to have injuries during the year with Herman as coach.

 

The counterpoints to Texas HC Tom Herman’s ‘Bloody Tuesdays’

 

On the other hand, Herman’s teams at Houston suffered from significant injury issues, especially along the offensive line, perhaps contributing to late-season losses, including to UConn in 2015 and a regular season-ending loss to Memphis in 2016, in addition to two October losses following non-conference games against Oklahoma and Cincinnati

https://www.burntorangenation.com/2017/1/18/14312986/tom-herman-bloody-tuesdays-texas-longhorns-mike-gundy-practice

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1 hour ago, primal defense said:

Yes they do, however they don't have a reputation of having tough practices during the year.  Common sense says that the more hits you take during the game and practice can cause more injuries and fatigue during the year.

We may have to get use to have injuries during the year with Herman as coach.

 

The counterpoints to Texas HC Tom Herman’s ‘Bloody Tuesdays’

 

On the other hand, Herman’s teams at Houston suffered from significant injury issues, especially along the offensive line, perhaps contributing to late-season losses, including to UConn in 2015 and a regular season-ending loss to Memphis in 2016, in addition to two October losses following non-conference games against Oklahoma and Cincinnati

https://www.burntorangenation.com/2017/1/18/14312986/tom-herman-bloody-tuesdays-texas-longhorns-mike-gundy-practice

 

Having a tougher team is worth the injury risk. Once Texas gets the depth they want then the injuries won't hit as hard as they do right now. 

 

By extension, some of the defensive issues we're seeing will be solved by better depth also. If we had the right players available there's no reason to think this year's defense wouldn't like last year's (and this year up until 3 games ago). 

The same complaint was made about Jimmy Johnson and the early 90's Cowboys... that he drove them way to hard in preseason. Didn't stop them from winning Super Bowls. Of course that was pre salary cap, and they had really good depth also. 

Texas just isn't 2 deep yet across the board.  Once the backups are practiced juniors/sophomores, instead of true freshman, the performance hit won't be nearly as bad. 

 

 

 

 

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Was this afternoon I became more aware of the full extent of injuries before and during the game.

My biggest thought following the game?..  that AP did not drop Texas. Left them at #15.

Since when in the 8th weekend of the season do you lose a game like that... making it 3 losses on the year, and second in conference... and don't drop a position in the AP poll? And it's your second loss in a row... this late in the season

Lose to OK-State in a prime time road game with a few dozen shoot-yourself-in-the-foot erratic plays/miscues/penalties; come back home in a nationally-televised game and lose the way that went down... and Sunday afternoon only 14 teams in the country ahead of you in the AP poll after losing two straight.

OU has one loss at AP #6.   Sole loss --Texas.
WVA has one loss, and jumps from AP #13 to #7... having just beat Texas.
Common denominator for both teams positioned for the conference title: TEXAS.

I'm going in a circle... to make the point more than one way. There's national respect for this 3-loss program. The program should go into Tue practice with a positive attitude to finish 9-3, with still a mathematical chance for the BigXII title game and a major New Year's bowl.

Okay pounce on me for going full aggie on this whole matter. I can take it. Just trying to get over how bummed out I have been.

 

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Epictetus said:

Was this afternoon I became more aware of the full extent of injuries before and during the game.

My biggest thought following the game?..  that AP did not drop Texas. Left them at #15.

Since when in the 8th weekend of the season do you lose a game like that... making it 3 losses on the year, and second in conference... and don't drop a position in the AP poll? And it's your second loss in a row... this late in the season

Lose to OK-State in a prime time road game with a few dozen shoot-yourself-in-the-foot erratic plays/miscues/penalties; come back home in a nationally-televised game and lose the way that went down... and Sunday afternoon only 14 teams in the country ahead of you in the AP poll after losing two straight.

OU has one loss at AP #6.   Sole loss --Texas.
WVA has one loss, and jumps from AP #13 to #7... having just beat Texas.
Common denominator for both teams positioned for the conference title: TEXAS.

I'm going in a circle... to make the point more than one way. There's national respect for this 3-loss program. The program should go into Tue practice with a positive attitude to finish 9-3, with still a mathematical chance for the BigXII title game and a major New Year's bowl.

Okay pounce on me for going full aggie on this whole matter. I can take it. Just trying to get over how bummed out I have been.

 

 

 

 

 

I pounce thee.:D

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2 hours ago, Sirhornsalot said:

Orlando does best when he's in attack mode. We really haven't seen that in a couple of games. He's been on his heels. To take a quote from Remember the Titans . . "they're on to your game. You need to shake things up."

 

 

"Orlando does best when he's in attack mode. "

Ditto!!!

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3 hours ago, Sirhornsalot said:

Not if you have the right personnel, which he had last year. That defense last year was salty.

3-2 looks bad when you have blown assignments and/or players getting whipped. Of course, any scheme looks bad when you have that.

Orlando does best when he's in attack mode. We really haven't seen that in a couple of games. He's been on his heels. To take a quote from Remember the Titans . . "they're on to your game. You need to shake things up."

 

Yes on the attack mode. On that last drive, I would have liked to have forced the issue and gone after the QB. That way maybe you get a stop or maybe they score quicker giving us more time to do something then. 

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If the Big 12 really wants a semblance of respect as a football conference, they really ought to consider their officials and how they call a game. 

Both teams were benefactors of awful calls in what should have been a showcase game. Both teams had big, exciting, explosive plays called back for inconsequential and questionable calls.  And another result of the parade of flags and reviews was that the game lasted almost 5 hours.  

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16 hours ago, Sirhornsalot said:

Not if you have the right personnel, which he had last year. That defense last year was salty.

3-2 looks bad when you have blown assignments and/or players getting whipped. Of course, any scheme looks bad when you have that.

Orlando does best when he's in attack mode. We really haven't seen that in a couple of games. He's been on his heels. To take a quote from Remember the Titans . . "they're on to your game. You need to shake things up."

 

So.... correct me if I'm wrong:

If... if you run a 3 man front, traditionally your 3 linemen are large tree stumps or run stoppers.  They are supplemented by 2 pass-rushing linebackers who are on the line, just not with a hand on the ground (Lawrence Taylor is the gold standard).  The nose guard is typically a hippopotamus.  

One advantage is that the LBs could also drop into coverage so there is an element of uncertainty as to who is coming on each pass.  The 4-3 is a bit more predictable.   

Texas has Omenihu and Hager on the line.  Both are physically more in line with a 3-4 linebacker.  Neither are run stoppers.  

Our nose-guards are:  Nelson and Wagner.   Nelson resembles a traditional tackle / end in the 3-4 while Wagner (backup), at 330 physically is a match for his position.  

If you look at the DLs redshirting or playing sparingly, the body types are in the pipeline.... they're bringing in the personnel, but my question is.... does Orlando want to run a traditional defense?   He cut his teeth at mid-majors like Utah St and Cougar High.... where gimmick is kind of the ticket to success.   You need trickery because you don’t have the talent others have. 

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2 hours ago, 83Dee said:

So.... correct me if I'm wrong:

If... if you run a 3 man front, traditionally your 3 linemen are large tree stumps or run stoppers.  They are supplemented by 2 pass-rushing linebackers who are on the line, just not with a hand on the ground (Lawrence Taylor is the gold standard).  The nose guard is typically a hippopotamus.  

One advantage is that the LBs could also drop into coverage so there is an element of uncertainty as to who is coming on each pass.  The 4-3 is a bit more predictable.   

Texas has Omenihu and Hager on the line.  Both are physically more in line with a 3-4 linebacker.  Neither are run stoppers.  

Our nose-guards are:  Nelson and Wagner.   Nelson resembles a traditional tackle / end in the 3-4 while Wagner (backup), at 330 physically is a match for his position.  

If you look at the DLs redshirting or playing sparingly, the body types are in the pipeline.... they're bringing in the personnel, but my question is.... does Orlando want to run a traditional defense?   He cut his teeth at mid-majors like Utah St and Cougar High.... where gimmick is kind of the ticket to success.   You need trickery because you don’t have the talent others have. 

Your 3-man front consists of one big body in the middle, and two not as big on the wings. They are not as big because they need to be able to move fast and quick and with power. Most offensive tackles have fits with these types.

Nelson is a NG all day long. Too big and slow to be a DT. Have no idea who Wagner is that you're referring to. Perhaps you mean Wilbon.

I will agree that Hagar is really too small to play that position. He should be a LB in this defense. However, he's found success in it anyway.

Where we're hurting this year is at LB. There's just been nobody close to what MJ was doing last year. MJ had a supporting cast, too. Well, that supporting cast isn't what it was. There's Johnson, then everybody else.

The absence of Malcom Roach has been key, IMO. Roach should be playing where Hagar is now.

Gimmick or not, that defense does very well against Big 12 offenses (or at least it did last year). That defense beats OU with great regularity.

Back in the day – pre-Earl Campbell's years with the Oilers and even when Earl arrived there – they ran a 3-4 and had a lot of success with it for years. Orlando isn't doing anything new. But the 3-4 allows him creativity that the 4-3 does not. With that creativity, he can attack the way he wants.

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3 hours ago, Sirhornsalot said:

Your 3-man front consists of one big body in the middle, and two not as big on the wings. They are not as big because they need to be able to move fast and quick and with power. Most offensive tackles have fits with these types.

Nelson is a NG all day long. Too big and slow to be a DT. Have no idea who Wagner is that you're referring to. Perhaps you mean Wilbon.

I will agree that Hagar is really too small to play that position. He should be a LB in this defense. However, he's found success in it anyway.

Where we're hurting this year is at LB. There's just been nobody close to what MJ was doing last year. MJ had a supporting cast, too. Well, that supporting cast isn't what it was. There's Johnson, then everybody else.

The absence of Malcom Roach has been key, IMO. Roach should be playing where Hagar is now.

Gimmick or not, that defense does very well against Big 12 offenses (or at least it did last year). That defense beats OU with great regularity.

Back in the day – pre-Earl Campbell's years with the Oilers and even when Earl arrived there – they ran a 3-4 and had a lot of success with it for years. Orlando isn't doing anything new. But the 3-4 allows him creativity that the 4-3 does not. With that creativity, he can attack the way he wants.

Yes, I meant Wilbon.  

So, it seems the majority opinion is that the issue is personnel and not scheme or offenses “figuring out” Orlando’s trickery.  I believe a natural follow up is below:

Do we project to have better personnel next year?

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51 minutes ago, 83Dee said:

Yes, I meant Wilbon.  

So, it seems the majority opinion is that the issue is personnel and not scheme or offenses “figuring out” Orlando’s trickery.  I believe a natural follow up is below:

Do we project to have better personnel next year?

This year isn't over. I don't care about next year.

Let's make this real simple. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it ain't working, then it's broke. Fix it!

Doing the same thing over and over expecting the results to be different doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in the staff or our backup players.

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11 hours ago, North Texas Golfer said:

Same coach and same scheme as last year is the constant.

Last year's defense was better than this year's defense.

If you want to know why, connect the dots. It's the level of talent. 

Orlando didn't forget how to coach.

So.... by year 3 we might have the talent that prevented 40+ points when we play a good offense?

perhaps I need to adjust my expectations.  

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2 hours ago, 83Dee said:

So.... by year 3 we might have the talent that prevented 40+ points when we play a good offense?

perhaps I need to adjust my expectations.  

By then we may not have an O. Seems we can't get a good O and a D on the field at the same time.

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On 11/5/2018 at 5:29 PM, North Texas Golfer said:

Same coach and same scheme as last year is the constant.

Last year's defense was better than this year's defense.

If you want to know why, connect the dots. It's the level of talent. 

Orlando didn't forget how to coach.

Not trying to be argumentative.... actually I could be wrong.  But I bet the individual players on Texas defense.... man for man..... coming out of high school.... would rank in the top 25 vs all other college football teams.  And we can’t see the 25th team from where I imagine this defense is ranked.  It is a major, major liability for this year’s addition.  

Is there a mistake in evaluating?

Is there a failure to develop?

Personally, I don’t buy the “talent” explanation for being this inept.  And I reject the “we’re young” explanation that I have heard around here for 10 years even more stringently.  

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32 minutes ago, 83Dee said:

Not trying to be argumentative.... actually I could be wrong.  But I bet the individual players on Texas defense.... man for man..... coming out of high school.... would rank in the top 25 vs all other college football teams.  And we can’t see the 25th team from where I imagine this defense is ranked.  It is a major, major liability for this year’s addition.  

Is there a mistake in evaluating?

Is there a failure to develop?

Personally, I don’t buy the “talent” explanation for being this inept.  And I reject the “we’re young” explanation that I have heard around here for 10 years even more stringently.  

I was comparing this year's defense to last year's defense. Not to other teams.

Line it up position by position and last year's players are better than this year's players in more positions than not. Probably by at least a 7-4 margin.

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14 minutes ago, North Texas Golfer said:

I was comparing this year's defense to last year's defense. Not to other teams.

Line it up position by position and last year's players are better than this year's players in more positions than not. Probably by at least a 7-4 margin.

Yes I agree with your point then.

My point remains (I think).  There is no way that you can justify our defense being THIS BAD because of a lack of talent.  Same goes for the youth or inexperience suggestion.  The exact reason could be debated.... I just don’t buy those. 

Question.... did Orlando have better athletes at cougar high?

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